AI generated

0:00
All right, all right. So welcome to our hallway hangout talking about theme development using the site editor, using the create theme block, theme plugin and playground, and all comes together in GitHub as the version control so so we know how that’s all going to work. I asked Beatriz, who is a theme developer, Automattic how they are organizing the work, because there are multiple designers and multiple themes and how that goes. And she has provided a little video to demo the process, to want us thoughts. Hi. We also have Sarah, sorry, sorry. We have Pia, who’s a designer also did a lot of designs for wordpress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ and Sarah is also here to tell us more about the Create block or answer question about the Create theme, create block, theme plugin. We need a better name for that. I stumbled with it, but the floor is yours. Bea,

1:25
yeah, Sarah will probably answer the questions that I don’t know how to answer because I’m a designer, not a developer, but yeah, I prepared a demo just to guarantee some fluidity in my explanations. And I’m sharing my screen. Let me know if audio is not good. Okay. Hi everyone. Today, I’m going to do a demo of how I usually update a theme that’s stored in a GitHub repo, and I do that with WordPress playground and the Create block theme plugin. This is the GitHub repo where my theme is located. As you can see here, it’s called foam and and the design adjustment that I want to make is I want to add the side paddings to the header. It currently has some bugbug A bug is an error or unexpected result. Performance improvements, code optimization, and are considered enhancements, not defects. After feature freeze, only bugs are dealt with, with regressions (adverse changes from the previous version) being the highest priority. or something was not set up correctly, and I want to add some side paddings. We’re going to go to WordPress playground, and the first thing we’re going to do is select a different storage type. We want to store our changes in the browser so that we don’t lose any changes that we make. And we also want to select Network Access, because that allows us to install plugins. We’re going to go to the upper right corner and select Import from GitHub. We have to connect our GitHub account. And after we’ve done that, we want to copy the link the URL of our GitHub repo, and we click Import. You can select, I am importing a theme, and then you write the name of your theme.

3:35
Click Import again. Okay, that’s done. Now we have our theme installed in the playground website, and now we’re going to go and install our plugins. It’s good to install GutenbergGutenberg The Gutenberg project is the new Editor Interface for WordPress. The editor improves the process and experience of creating new content, making writing rich content much simpler. It uses ‘blocks’ to add richness rather than shortcodes, custom HTML etc. https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/, because we never know this theme was built on it, and it’s always best to have it as well, and we’re going to install, create block theme.

4:10
Click Install and activate. We’re going to activate Gutenberg as well, and we’re ready to go into the editor now. Okay, so we’re going to make that change, and I’m going to go to my header, which is right here, and it should be very easy to add, or in this case, I think we’ll just click a toggle and remove it out here. All right. Now there’s the padding. That was missing.

5:07
We want to save the changes that we made, all of them with create block theme.

5:21
All right. Now we’re going to go to the hamburger menu again and export pull request to GitHub. Now all of these fields are automatically filled. The only thing that I’m going to add is what I changed add missing side padding to header, and I’m also going to click export the changes as a zip file, just in case, and I’m going to click Create pull request. This is going to automatically create the pull request in your GitHub repo.

6:01
Okay, now we can visit the pull request, and here it is our theme with the changes, we can see the files that have changed since I made this change. It is here, and this is how you can update the theme using WordPress playground and create block theme plugin.

6:39
Okay, stop sharing now.

6:53
Very cool. So am I understanding correctly that what you’ve just shown that’s basically for working on the theme, templates, template parts, patterns, maybe whatever else is there to submit the pull request back in. So it’s purely for the code at the moment, because the most common usage that we that we have, or that I’ve seen mentioned on social media and stuff, isn’t just for covid, for for editing the themes in that way, but it’s also for stuff that’s still in the database, so for managing client sites. And I know that’s a huge, a huge topic and very difficult to answer, but

7:39
let us back up a little bit. The reason Bayer used to create block theme plugin is because of exactly that. Yeah, that the change because she made changes to the template header and because it was through the user interface, it was actually only stored in the database, but with the Create block theme plugin X save feature, she was able to the to save that back into the HTMLHTML HyperText Markup Language. The semantic scripting language primarily used for outputting content in web browsers. file of the theme, so all the changes that are made through the site editor that are stored in database, if you use that plugin, will be saved into the theme files, and then from there the GitHub repo. The theme was pushed into the GitHub repo. So there are quite a few so create block theme is for saving the changes that are. So if she, if you change some of the color palette which is also in the database, yeah, and you save it through the Create block theme plugin, it will also update the same JSON file, yeah, so it will be a contained theme plugin. Theme, complain theme, or am I explaining that wrong?

9:07
No, that makes sense. I mean, that’s kind of what I’ve been using, what we’ve been using, the Create block, the plugin for anyway, in that we’ll do stuff, we’ll change stuff on a staging server, will the client, will change everything, and then we’ll save it back out to the theme and then, and then deal with it separately in a GitHub process. So I think that, I think, I think that it’s kind of as manual control on our side as an agency, that we only do it at a set point we can say to the client, right, stop working. Now. We have to implement, implement your changes, and create, like a new version. And that’s then the new baseline. So the kind of the addition that is, I mean, I don’t know, is that a new thing? Sarah put the link in, I think that it’s a functionality which is in playground. It’s not in the plugin, whereby you can get stuff to go straight back into GitHub. And that’s kind of a missing bridge, because we’re. WordPress, I think, has focused a lot on SVNSVN Subversion, the popular version control system (VCS) by the Apache project, used by WordPress to manage changes to its codebase., on subversion, until now. So having that ability to get stuff back into GitHub directly as a pull request, whether it’s an automatic theme, whether it’s our own GitHub setup, whatever, I think that’s going to be incredibly useful. The question would be, is that something that is staying in playground, or is that something that’s going to be feeding back into the Create block theme plugin?

10:29
I don’t know for sure, but I would think it’s going to stay in playground, definitely for, you know, a longish time. You know, I’m thinking months, if not years. Certainly no plans to move it to create what clean book, because playground provides that functionality. Yeah, okay.

10:46
I also think that the GitHub functionality and playground is actually more than themes. You could actually get in plugins as well. Yeah. So if you if there’s a mechanism to or a whole site, so you could have a sip file in, or have your site in GitHub, the whole site, and then grab, grab it from the link when playground updated, and then updated back into your GitHub repo. But that’s the whole theme. Yeah. So you could also do your plugins and custom development and custom post types and all that as well.

11:32
So did you see that question that Tammy raised in the chat?

11:35
Yeah? Just reading it. Yeah. So Tammy, right?

11:43
So I probably can answer to

11:45
Yeah, but can you? Can you read it also, so we have it in the recording, please.

11:50
Okay, Tammy is asking how this works for a pattern you might add to a theme or template part, and this would work like in the the example that I showed, I made a modification to an existing pattern. In this case, a template part. If you added a new one, it would work exactly the same. You would see it added after you saved it to your theme. You would see it in the code after you’ve saved it with the Create block theme, does that answer the question? The issue I find, though, is how you unpick

12:31
I’m going to try and speak. So bear with me. Excited. Um, sometimes when you use the Create block theme on the export, it puts everything together. So if you want to use template parts, or you want to use patterns, and we want to have them separated, it you can’t do that. Sarah is nodding. So I’m hoping Sarah gets what I’m saying, and I’m going to pass it to Sarah to explain,

13:04
yes, I think I know what you mean, and I think this is probably leading to hopefully upcoming pattern management and create block theme. So, yeah, currently, when you export a pattern that’s been that you’re using in a theme template, it’s all like, bundled into the template, and isn’t separated into the pattern, like in the patterns, directly within the theme. And yet, that is currently expected, because it’s not functionality that exists yet and is hopefully coming soon. And well, actually, let me post a link as well so you can follow along with the progress. But yeah, I know it’s a it’s often an often requested functionality as well for create block themes. So it’s, it’s certainly a priority, and, yeah, we recognize it as a priority. So

13:52
the moment that happens, I will be incredibly happy and so many people because it really, it allows you to have a lot safer, a lot cleaner code. So yeah, I’m very excited.

14:05
So if I understood that problem correctly, is that if I as a user create new patterns in the site editor, it does not add them to a template. It’s only in the template, but not in the pattern when it’s saved down to the file. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, and thank you for the link. Sarah, that’s a great, great issue to follow along on that problem save so I saw in the Create block theme as well a functionality to save and Bayer had to link click on it separately. It wasn’t a default option to to save localized text and localized images. What does exactly do so?

15:00
Yeah, so they, they’re the the options are separate, so you can pick and choose which options you want depending on what you’re doing. The localized text wraps any text strings in a translationtranslation The process (or result) of changing text, words, and display formatting to support another language. Also see localization, internationalization. function, so that the WordPress translation functions, so that, so it’s a it’s a requirement for the.org the wordpress.org theme directory, that things are translatable, but obviously for different use cases, you might not want to translate everything, because you just might not need it, or maybe you don’t think you need it, maybe you do need it, but yeah, it’s there so you can turn it off if you don’t need those functions. And then what was the other one? The localized images, images. So that’s for if you’ve uploaded an image that’s part of a template. So say, any an image block, cover block, or you’ve got, like a hero image in a template. When you export anything currently with the base export functionality, it won’t include assets, so things like images and fonts. But if you’re using this create block theme function, it will include the image asset inside the theme assets directory, and it will reference the the image from that directory. So it’s a relative link, like if you’re used to building with things, and you’ll probably know the kind of link, I mean. But normally this doesn’t happen with the base x functionality. We’re WordPress, yeah, that’s the magic. It’s kind of like an automatic relative link. Okay,

16:31
so that’s for instance, if I have a background image that I attached to a group block, or if I have a sideway back background image, it would only land through playground in the media library of that site, but if I wanted in the theme, I need to kind of check that so it kind of come will be saved also in the assets folder of the Theme. Okay. Yeah. Okay, good. Um, any other questions? Yeah.

17:03
I wish there were. I guess sync. I guess sync patterns that have been created by one of the editors, one of the users, wouldn’t be ignored in that process. Or would they also be included?

17:14
They will be ignored at the moment. So sync patterns currently don’t work on theme export. That’s kind of all what’s wrapped up in this, the pattern management, yeah, idea as well. But,

17:27
yeah, they currently that’s as a good thing, as a good thing, as you all want to I mean, well, I say it’s a good thing. I mean, it will be helpful for agency clients like us who want to version the content as well as the as well as the tech behind it, but I think that’s, that’s a more complicated scope, and I don’t think that’s necessarily part of WordPress coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. functionality. I think that’s something that we should be solving, not on an individual basis, but I don’t think that’s something that should be part of the block theme, because it would start to get very complicated for users who are kind of, I mean, I say freelancers or individual users who are creating sites and using playground, for example, or using their own logic to define how to do this kind of stuff, because every agency’s case is different. You know, do you version the content? You version the patterns? There’s so many different ways that it could be configured that I think adding that kind of thing into the into a standardized plugin might just mean that we’ll all sync under all of the options, and nobody will understand how to get to where they need to be. Kind of too many features, if you

18:31
know, yeah, complex. It’s getting complex quickly, but I know there is so not in 6.6 but for 6.7 there is an issue on GitHub to actually have sync patterns for themes, so themes can put patterns into the pattern directory that also have block bindings to custom fields and those, if they change. I think that would be probably on the roadmap for create block theme plugin to actually also save those out. Or maybe it would be possible to save out the sync pattern from the users, the think pattern overrides from the users, and then have them into the file repository, as well as patterns. I’m not sure if that’s going to be really that might be straightforward because, yeah, I don’t know. I think that’s one level too complex for me at the moment too, but it’s certainly something to think about, because sink pattern overrides for themes is in the works. Somehow you want it, yeah, so Tammy also wrote that the big one she’s coming back to our shortcodes, which. Outside the scope of this. But it’s, I think takes a poor, poor block to sink, and it’s far simpler, yeah, I think so too. Yeah, I’m not quite sure. And then, so, when you have a custom value in the same JSON, so I’m just reading what dem is saying, one thing I do have, though, is when you went to custom value in a theme JSON, when not to I think many of us create block themes and have an ever growing custom section and theme JSON. What are thoughts on that from those creating themes? Yeah, that’s definitely a question for Bea and Carolina and Sarah. Yeah,

20:59
I’m not sure I understand the question, I

21:03
would try again and explain so to particularly values, to the custom values in theme. Jason, I find that I’m having an ever growing amount of those custom variables in theme. Jason, the simple block themes, 100% No, I don’t need it, but I don’t generally deal with simple themes. And once you go beyond that, you just need more. You maybe want different. Pod scales, line heights, is a good example all these ones, and it feels like with every block scene that people are making, that custom section is getting bigger. I know with the investor, we have more potential with same Jason three, for it to get smaller. But I just, I just wondered if whatever people are feeling, and I’ve looked at some of the recent themes, and also seeing that other people’s theme, Jason’s have that custom section going as well.

22:10
Okay, yeah, I don’t think, like, when I’m creating the theme, I’m not really thinking about if it’s big, like, if it’s growing too much, because, like, Oops, okay, that’s I’m basically, like changing the global styles in the editor, And like evaluating from a visual perspective. And I try not to add any extra CSSCSS Cascading Style Sheets. too much or anything like that. But sometimes I find it’s it’s needed to go there and theme JSON and change the values, like the the the fluid values, for example, those. I changed them a lot, and I haven’t ventured too much on the spacings. I usually deal with the base theme that I’m working and use those, but sometimes it’s a little frustrating because they’re not exactly how I would use them. But that the short answer is, the short answer is, I don’t think too much about that. I’m not sure if that is, yeah, but that’s probably a more designery Question Answer.

23:37
I mean, I can speak from that, because it’s something that we’ve sort of been right through the whole process, right from 2018 right through to now, is trying all the different options, working out the best processes and stuff. And I agree that some projects, we will use custom values in the sheet theme. Jason, for example, if we’ve got a fixed header bar that doesn’t it remains fixed and doesn’t scroll, we might need to dynamically know the height of that thing, or we need to define it by breakpoint, or whatever. Then that’s, can be okay, a use case for custom variables in theme, JSON,

24:12
correct. I’m not talking CSS variables, though. That’s not what I’m talking about here. Custom CSS. What I’m talking about is things that don’t. So actually having line height is a great example. So for finding those variables in there, it’s something Ollie Foss, lots of other theme developers already have. They’re not actually writing, sorry, custom CSS. That’s not what I’m talking about, no,

24:41
no, no, no. But you’re referring to setting the value of typography, line height, for example, to a custom value or no.

24:50
So you’d write that line height, you’d have a line height scale that you would use, and then you’d be able to use that

24:56
throughout, yeah, those are the presets that you can get in the cage. Sonia and you feel that you have a need to kind of create, aside from the default presets, more and more presets for your sites. That not only is

25:14
where the gap exists where there isn’t a predefined preset already that you can use in theme, Jason, and that’s where the gap is generally telling us where we need to do future presets. Yeah, yeah.

25:31
I mean, I think we’re on the same page. I understand what you mean, yeah. I mean, the experience I have is basically to really take us take a step back and say, Is this Configure? Is this going to be used on more than one site? Is this going to be configurable? Can we change this down the line? Is it something we might need to adjust that scale in the future for the for this project or for this client? And if it mostly, if it’s going to be reusable, like, I’ve got a multi site with, I don’t know, 10 sites that are all using slightly different variations of the same block theme in the site editor. Then these values might be slightly different according to the font, for example. Then that’s something that will be I will put into theme. Jason, if it is a really custom value, then I’m, I’m General. I mean, if we’re talking about CSS or PHPPHP The web scripting language in which WordPress is primarily architected. WordPress requires PHP 7.4 or higher, whatever, that’s something, then I tend to not put it into theme Jason, because I don’t want it to be controlled by a configuration option. Rather, it’s setting a value which can’t be changed, which applies to that theme. Because I see theme Jason as something you would set up once, and then maybe as a project continues or progresses or develops, then maybe go and modify it. Or if it’s on multiple sites, then it’s different on each site. So my case is different to somebody who’s using it on a one off website. It’s different from something like Olli. Well, the Olli theme, for as an example, is going to be on installed on 1000s of websites, and every single website could be slightly different. So that’s the case for using theme JSON without having to touch any code.

27:06
So I tend to not use CSS anymore. I use theme Jason, even if I just do one site. So I think that’s the difference, because I use it as a design system approach. I create a theme as a design system there. Yeah.

27:20
I mean, we’ve got, we’ve we’ve tried, we’ve tried two projects where we said, No, we’re just going to use theme Jason, and nothing else. And we ended up with several 100 lines of custom stuff in theme Jason, which was not real. It’s not doesn’t make sense to us.

27:32
Well, so 3000 lines in CSS,

27:36
it is absolutely and that’s why we’ve got the combination of the two. We use theme Jason up to the limit where it doesn’t make sense anymore, and then anything else we say, Write this kind of stuff in it’s not something we want people to change the configuration of. It has to be done like this, like a CSS reset, for example, to make certain stuff in Firefox happen correctly. That’s not something that’s a configuration option. That’s something that’s like, no, it’s a fix. It’s something that has to always apply. But I do know that that’s quite an advanced use case. So it is not saying we use a theme Jason for the minimum and everything else we did my hand. That’s not the case. We start with theme Jason, and we get to a point where we say that’s not achievable within Jason, then it probably never will, because it’s too specific for our for our use case. So So

28:20
Sarah was so kind enough to share a link to an issue or a pull request, rather to add UI for users to change the funds presets for a site. So that is certainly something that will also then need to be kind of in that process that we are talking about. Need then to be also safe through create block theme and then feed out into the through the theme JSON, probably, but yeah, so if something is fixed, I’m kind of wondering why that wouldn’t be in theme JSON, because if it’s fixed in, in right out of the bat, then you don’t have to do any other customization, and it you can make it that it’s everything,

29:23
yeah. I mean, to me, I prefer to go to the engage in just one places. From the QA perspective, it’s just easier. I think you can have an endless debate about it depends on what implementations you’re doing. Yeah,

29:43
but yeah, I’m more so behind that, like one source of truth. So

29:50
it depends on what project you using, what libraries and what implementation. But it also for me, I kind of did that it. It is in. Up that. But it’s also about maybe we should be surfacing more where we’re using those question values, where we’re having the really long amounts and saying, Hey, these things do need to have more visibility as well, and not just accepting that we’re doing the custom phase,

30:20
probably not theme based, but the immediate thought that comes to mind is custom plots, where, to a certain extent, you can use the configuration in theme JSON to handle that, but some custom blocks are going to come with a very locked down set of code, CSS. I’ll take CSS as an easy example, where it’s not configurable. It’s just it is how it is. And you don’t want to try and offer that as a configuration option for a custom block. But again, that’s, you know, I mean, I know the general pushes towards core and commonality and everything following core as closely as possible. But there are, there is a very valid use case for custom blocks and for custom Absolutely. I call them custom patterns, but you can’t even edit them in the block editor. You know, they’re absolutely locked down for better usability for users that they don’t want to have to go and fight, fight their way through nested blocks and stuff like that. They just want to have a field where they can change the image and done but, but that’s not, again, that’s not that’s one of the things I feel quite strongly about is that’s not something that core should be solving. That’s down to the individual developer to make it work well for the project and for the agency and for the client needs. So when we’re talking about custom plots, that’s not something I don’t think right now. I think the core focus should be on what makes sense for everybody, and not what makes sense for these 10% of people who are intent on doing it themselves, certainly not in the current state. There’s too much to be worked on, yet too much to be improved. Before you start getting to into really outline non specific or very specific use cases that that link that you said shared, Sarah, to the to the editor, what kind I mean I’ve only just very, very quickly flick through it is, what’s the feedback there? Is it? Should we do it? Or how do we do it? What feedback is needed there?

32:08
So I think it’s a yes, we should do it. It was more, I was wondering if it would help, if, if all these custom, potential, custom values had a UI that matched up, so it doesn’t reduce the amount that’s in theme JSON, which I know is the initial complaint, but if there’s somewhere to, like, visually organize them, and maybe, if we got to that for all the presets, then maybe they could be exported as a separate json file as well. Oh, you know, there was the option to export them as a separate file to Maurice. So

32:42
an additional, an additional section, like custom book to call that I know, for example, presets, where these custom names, keys and values get applied, sounds like a really good idea. Yeah, definitely. What

32:53
it helps is it makes the invisible visible. And I think one of the problems I have at the moment is I’m craving a lot of invisibles, something that is meant to be encouraging visibles. And then that means I can benefit from the dream evenness in the most beautiful way when I’m rapidly creating. And one of these things, which will no matter what we’re doing, whatever we create, and dictates and creates variables that we can use in blogs, whatever we use. So we need to also remember that no matter what we are creating there, we do have these variables created that we can call out as well. Yeah.

33:29
But side question on that, when we got when we create in custom colors in the Styles editor, when we save those out with create block theme, are they being added to the palette array and brought into the Yeah, okay, yeah.

33:43
So, Sarah, what’s next for the what’s on the rave map for the gray block theme plugin, in terms of what’s coming into WordPress six and further on?

33:59
Yeah? Well, the most recent changes, we feel that are in a good place, where we’ve just kind of finished a big refactor from moving from the WP adminadmin (and super admin) page into the the editor UI, yeah. So we feel like that’s in a good place. There’s probably more we can do. There always is, but we’ve moved everything that exists currently in the WP admin into the editor, and then next was actually pattern management, which hopefully addresses the first thing we were talking about. But we’re trying to, we’re trying to work as closely as possible with the sync patterns discussion and work that’s going in to both 6.6 and 6.7 let me find another issue as well, a Gutenberg issue for 6.7 but, yeah, I think that the issue, the Create block theme issue that I faced before, about pattern management, I think we’re coming to the idea that we’re going to experiment with pattern management in that plugin and just work alongside whatever’s happening in Gutenberg as well. And yeah, and hopefully just. Like proof of concepts and things out and see, see what lands. But, yeah, we know it’s a big wanted feature to manage patterns in the editor.

35:14
Was that the one that you let her know, who is it? Justin, who’s done a block pattern manager? Somebody. I can’t remember it was now, I’m sure I saw someone on GitHub, just

35:23
very Yeah, Justin was one. There was also a blockmeister kind of thing. JB orders had a plugin that lets you do pattern from but they were all kind of pattern management from the editor. That was that feature wasn’t available in core back then, when the plugins were created, but now it’s available in core. So those plugins are the only thing. What you can’t do in core right now is create new categories, but that has also well couldn’t do before, but now you can so that the whole part is kind of built into core now. And yeah, and now, thank you for sharing the sync pattern iteration for WordPress 6.7 that has the overrides for theme patterns and a few other things that are in there. Expand block support for sync patterns, because right now it’s only available for four blocks the sync pattern overrides that certainly needs to be expanded a bit so it also covers other blocks

36:35
going going back to Sarah’s comments about the UI for presets, one thing that would be very useful would be if we can have a way of changing the font sizes through UI that are predefined so large, instead of 18 pixels, is 19 pixels, and then saving that back out to theme Jason, because at the moment, that’s something that still requires a manual a manual change, which is something I As a very pernickety typo guy, I change the size of my fonts every, every few weeks, because it’s like it needs to be a little bit smaller, a little bit bigger. So if there’s a way of actually implementing that into the process, so that that can be versioned as well through GitHub, in the way that we’ve seen in playground, or even just that there’s an interface to say max for the fluid sizes, just for a little bit of fine tuning, maybe after a launch, or maybe the client has a change, but we don’t have time to go into the code and change stuff that would be very useful, because the way that we manage most of our client sites is they tend to ask for changes, minor changes, two weeks after the project has gone live and we think we’re finished, so we just say, we’ll change it in the we’ll change it in the site editor And or the sales editor. Leave it there for the time being, and we’ll come back to it in another in the next iteration, and then use the plugin to save all those little itty bitty changes back out into the file. Yeah, I was just gonna say, is there already an issue for that? Or shall I put one?

38:01
I think it’s probably the same issue. I think that’s the UI is for for editing those font size presets within the editor, so you don’t go into the code and change them. We’re also starting with font sizes, but we’re probably going to follow up pretty closely with spacing presets as well the spacing size presets and then others. But yeah, definitely those two to begin with.

38:25
Yeah, spacing sizes will be very handy, because that’s something where I have to go and remind myself of the of the preset slugs every time I do it, to go and actually adjust them and try and not use my own spacing unit, a spacing presets actually trying to support ones. So yeah,

38:40
be very handy. Sounds like we all need the same tool? Yeah, that’s yeah.

38:47
Is that something I mean, bear, Sarah, are you? Are you working on? Are you working on things for automatic directly or

38:55
so I’m primarily working on, like tools to support theme builders and anyone else the editor often theme builders. So, yeah, that’s where the that font size is, PR comes in.

39:06
Okay, how about you bear? Do you what are you working actively on the themes? Or,

39:11
yeah, I’m, I’m a designer. My background is a designer, but I recently started to build them in the editor and do all this. And I also released the themes in wordpress.org,

39:24
so that’s kind of these tools that we’ve been talking about now are very much something that you can see as a, let’s say, a theme creator for people, that hundreds or 1000s of people, people are going to be using it. That’s these are use cases for that from that side of the target audience as well, cool, exactly.

39:41
Yeah, so when you were talking about clients, that’s kind of, I understand that, but yeah, probably the process is it’s different, because your clients, they get into the websites and they want to change it themselves for out. Automatic themes. It’s like all these people that are going to use the theme, so yeah, but the tools are these tools are incredible, like the Create Blogblog (versus network, site) theme plugin and playground, they have been so useful for me in the process. Yeah,

40:17
yeah, for us who I mean, I mean, you say that about clients. Our clients our clients tend to be small and medium sized businesses, and honestly, they don’t care. They don’t want to, they don’t want to know. They just want to write their content. They don’t care what I mean, they care about how it looks, but they don’t want to have to go into the site editor. They never, I mean, like 95% of my clients don’t even know there is a site editor. And they don’t care, and they don’t want to know, but they come and say, Can we change the spacing, that font, that title needs to be a little bit bigger, all this kind of stuff. And that’s an iterative process, because they’re never happy with it. They’re happy with it for a month, and then they want to change it again. So yeah, it’s coming from it. It’s coming from the same problem from a slightly different angle. But it’s great to find that there are solutions that are working or being worked on, I should say, and being provided for, for US agencies, and also for normal users, if we can put it that way. Well,

41:05
at the great block theme plugin as well as the playground. They are open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL.. They can be adopted to any other scenario of having themes in in GitHub version control. So I don’t think it’s a big client versus small client, or 15,000 users versus one site using a theme. I think it could also always be version control, and that probably is, and it’s a fantastic workflow. I haven’t seen anybody else yet using that workflow. That’s why we kind of had, yeah, gee. Tammy raised her hand and said, I’m using it, yeah. So yeah, but I think we is there anything on

42:01
that for me, I’ve been using that workflow ever since the plugin came out, because it makes it makes no sense not using that workflow. To me, I’m having been using I’ve only recently been adding the playground to my workflow.

42:15
But to me,

42:18
create bot plugin, and doing that completely makes sense. It just hasn’t made any sense to do it any other way, from small projects to large enterprise, agencies, food, whatever, it doesn’t make any sense, even if you go down to the just starting to have a theme, and whatever you thought from, or whatever you create, whatever base you create from through to using it like dream leader, just to do the least. And that’s what, like the root of the plugin can do. Playground is an addition to it, and I think that depends on whether you have ddev or you have different environments as you kind of get into those different scales. Yeah. So

43:00
there are some things coming out of WordPress, point six, 6.6 that will change a little bit how you create themes or how you do I’m talking about the section styles. Bia. Have you been any testing or experience with that on how that’s going to work and how how you feel about what you feel about that, and how you use it?

43:30
Sorry, could you repeat the question? Because there was something in the audio. Okay,

43:35
so I was thinking that WordPress 6.6 comes with section styles. And have you done any experimentation or explorations about that? And is there anything that you would kind of share with us what your experience was?

43:52
In fact, I haven’t experienced experimented with it, so I can’t share anything useful, not yet.

44:01
All right, anybody else Carolina or Tammy or Sarah? Have you done any experimentation with that? All right, then I think that’s another, yeah, Carolina kind of put into hasn’t had time yet for it, and I can understand that it’s still three weeks out, so I think we have another developer hours or hallway hang out about that. I just so I’m thinking, if there aren’t any other questions, I give everybody kind of 10 minutes back from their time. It was wonderful to have you here and have this discussion. Thank you for Bear. Bear to put this little video together, the demo together so we can all see how it goes from from first step to to then the pull request. And that was very, very helpful. And also for Sarah to have all the answers for the. These wonderful questions from Mark and Tammy and in our show, I want to just before you go, have for you the next hallway hangout is in November. November. Oh, I wish it were November 26 in June, 26 at 11 UTC and it’s about grid layouts and how to use the functionality from 6.6 and what’s coming in 6.7 and then a day before, it’s a developer hour on what theme, what comes what’s important for theme developers for 6.6 so, and that’s on June 25 1500 UTC I’m just going to throw that out so you can note it down or the thing, I think it shared it at the beginning, but maybe I need to share it again. So there is that. That’s the Hangout announcement. And here is the developer hour for next week, so we all have it in our browsers. And with that, I thank everybody, and I see you.

46:15
Quick question, very quick question, the hallway Hangouts, are they going onto meetup.com?

46:20
No, they’re not going on meetup.com. On meetup.com but there will be a summary post on make core blog for the Yeah. So I shared the recording, and I share the links that we had, and also transcript and the separate video from Bayer’s demonstration, so you don’t have to watch a whole hour to just see that demonstration. All right, this, this is it, and thank you all for and see you next week. Bye, thanks

46:49
for your time, guys. Bye. Bye. You.