Tammie Lister 7:09 pm on December 2, 2014

Theme review team weekly notes This week we…

Theme review team weekly notes

This week we met to discuss hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same.. This was an open discussion therefore the notes are minimal from this as it was an opportunity to hear all sides.

The logs are here: https://wordpress.slack.com/archives/themereview/p1417543077005595

Notes:

New suggested requirement:
Comments_template() is required.
New clarification:
Comments.php will remain not required.

Terry East 7:34 pm on December 2, 2014

If not in the WordPress theme repository, we need an outlet for experimentation. I get the standard hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same. took a lot of effort to develop, are very productive, and provide certainty for a large market for pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party developers. But being able to get by the “common thinking” a theme consists headers, sidebars, comments, and footers is important for front-end innovation and moving into application platforms. WordPress is used by approximately 25% of the websites on the web… a tremendous growth opportunity for the unsold 75%.
- Chip Bennett 7:37 pm on December 2, 2014
  
  Note: the argument here isn’t that *comments* are or are not required. We have already settled on support of the coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. comments feature being required.
  
  The question here regards *implementation* only. Should Themes be required to implement comments via the comments_template() core function, or not?
  - Terry East 7:45 pm on December 2, 2014
    
    And all the rest the hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same. and structure remain the same… fine…
JulienMelissas 7:42 pm on December 2, 2014

I’m just going to pitch in here because I was late to the meeting:

I think that it’s a good idea to encourage the use of comments_template() by saying it’s a requirement, and then say if there is no file argument provided there must be a comments.php file present.
- JulienMelissas 7:52 pm on December 2, 2014
  
  Now that I think about it, the thing I said about comments.php file being required – it shouldn’t be. We should keep the comments file not required, but require the use of comments_template(), as suggested above. My 2c
  - Chip Bennett 8:23 pm on December 2, 2014
    
    Note: comments_template() will always attempt to load whatever template-part file is passed to it (which is comments.php if nothing is passed to the function). Fallback template-part files are deprecated in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress.; therefore, the Theme *must* provide whatever template-part file it passes.
Chip Bennett 8:27 pm on December 2, 2014

I am (legitimately) curious what the arguments are that requiring use of comments_template() inhibits innovation with respect to implementing the coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. comments feature. I think that would be a very useful place to start the discussion.
- Terry East 9:00 pm on December 2, 2014
  
  I think restricting the conversation to comments_template() squeezes it into a very little box… that misses the high-level thought. The current CMS model benefits from the current structure and hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same.… no argument… if you want to continue to develop for that market… great…
  but what does the next model look like… it’s designing for the next generation of web applications. Can the two different models coexist… do we sponsor this new thinking or does it get developed elsewhere?
  - Chip Bennett 9:03 pm on December 2, 2014
    
    That is certainly a legitimate question, and a discussion that should be had, continually. It’s just not the one we’re having in this specific instance.
    
    In this case, the decision was made a while ago to remove the requirement to include the comments.php template-part file in Themes. That change led to quite a bit of confusion, and in order to clarify, it is being proposed to make a change to that change, not to require comments.php, but rather to require implementation of the comments feature via comments_template() coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. function.
- Justin Tadlock 9:07 pm on December 2, 2014
  
  The case that immediately comes to mind is when a theme needs to split up the comments list and the comments form (I believe the p2 theme that we’re using here on this blog is one variation on this idea).
  
  The reason I bring this up is because of the “coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. hook” argument. If we’re arguing that comments_template() must be used because it fires certain hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same., particularly comments_template, we’re also saying that all themes must put both the comments list and comment form into the template loaded via comments_template(). I don’t think you can have one requirement without the other. Plugins that filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. comments_template would expect to be overwriting them both.
  
  Anyone who wanted to display these two things separately would not be able to do so. Now, if we’re going to simply say that the comments_template() function needs to fire and nothing more than that, I have no problem with it. A theme author could simply stick a blank comments.php in their theme or kill the filter hook; then, do their own thing. Or, do like p2 does and load the two in separate files (one via comments_template()).
  
  Edit: If we only require that comments_template() be called and that the file is only required to list comments (not necessarily the comment form), I’m on board. That’s the only legitimate use case I can think of.
  - Chip Bennett 9:20 pm on December 2, 2014
    
    Just thinking off the top of my head (not having looked at any code), I don’t see any reason why the call to comment_form() *has* to happen inside of comments_template(). That function primarily deals with the comment list output.
  - Chip Bennett 11:30 pm on December 2, 2014
    
    Re: Edit –
    
    As long as comment_form() is called *somewhere* in the Theme, and that comments_template() is used to load the comments template, which includes the comments list, I don’t see why there would be any issue.
    
    Is there any way that the comment form being loaded somewhere else could adversely impact the comment-reply JS that gets loaded, to bring the comment form in-line with the comments when replying?
    - Justin Tadlock 11:45 pm on December 2, 2014
      
      No, that’s not an issue at all. You can literally call comment_form() in your header.php template, and it’ll go where it’s supposed to when replying.
jancbeck 11:51 pm on December 2, 2014

As a beginner something is not clear to me. Let’s say I’m doing a mobile web app or something like that to display job listings.
Is there room for exceptions for innovative themes that are outside the “blog norm”? I saw something like this mentioned in the comments of the other blog post.
- Chip Bennett 11:53 pm on December 2, 2014
  
  What is the content (post) type of the job listings? Are they blog posts, static pages, or a custom post typeCustom Post Type WordPress can hold and display many different types of content. A single item of such a content is generally called a post, although post is also a specific post type. Custom Post Types gives your site the ability to have templated posts, to simplify the concept.?
- Justin Tadlock 12:05 am on December 3, 2014
  
  Yes, there are exceptions to that. For me, one of the biggest concerns is making sure that we’re not unnecessarily restricting innovative ideas. We also have to find a balance between that and your theme breaking a bunch of plugins or WordPress.
  
  The other part of that is we have to think about what coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. WP supports out of the box. For example, blog posts are a built-in part of WordPress. I’d love to see a day when WordPress themes can simply do something like add_theme_support( 'blog-posts' ) to declare that they support a blog (or not support as the case may be). The core software isn’t there yet. This puts us in a bit of a situation where we have to be a little more restrictive than some of us would like to be.
  
  Anyway, if you have something pretty unique that just doesn’t fit in well with the norms, we’ll always consider it on a case-by-case basis. The best things you can do for yourself are to cover every guideline possible, make sure your code is nice and clean, and be prepared to explain why your theme needs an exception to one or more guidelines.
  
  Like I said, it’s a case-by-case thing. Specifics help.

Welcome to the Themes team!

Handbooks and review requirements

Coding standards and plugins

Code Packages

Communication

Theme review team weekly notes This week we…

Theme review team weekly notes

Welcome to the Themes team!

Handbooks and review requirements

Coding standards and plugins

Code Packages

Communication

Theme review team weekly notes

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