The Test Team helps manage testing and triage across the WordPress ecosystem. They focus on user testing of the editing experience and WordPress dashboard, replicating and documenting bug reports, and supporting a culture of review and triage across the project.
If you’d like to help test Full Site Editing, please join the FSE Outreach Program. You can find current calls for testing for this program here and you can join the fun in #fse-outreach-experiment.
This is a summary of a Hallway Hangout that was wrangled in the #fse-outreach-experiment channel as part of the FSE Outreach Program. Thank you to everyone who joined in!
Attendance:
@annezazu @paaljoachim @bassgang @dealbuquerque Jason from Replay.io and Dig (no further info).
Video Recording:
Notes:
For broader context, this is a hallway hangout building off of the initial effort to gather volunteers to help test Replay.io in the FSE Outreach Program as a way to consider possible ways of including the tool more broadly in the project. Replay has a big OSS commitment, including free support, which allows the FSE Outreach Program to explore using it ahead of potential broader use.
Quick introductions
We started with some quick introductions to get a sense of who was on the call, how we’re connected to the WordPress project, and what drew folks to help with testing replay.io:
What is replay.io?
Replay,io is a “time travel debugger”. It’s just like a video where you can pause, fast forward, rewind but the entire browser session is recorded. Replay is free for open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL. communities so we’re trying to see if it’ll make a difference in how the community reports bugs and maintainers solve them. Oliver and Jason shared some additional details including a case study from Pantheon.
Examples
We briefly went through some examples with TechCrunch as an initial overview followed by an example from @paaljoachim.
Feedback on Replay.io
At a high level, there have been various notes around the Site Editor loading slowly in the Replay browser from folks using the tool. Since the Replay browser isn’t something to aim to get widespread compatibility with, the Replay team is going to dig in to see what might be causing the problem and how we can resolve that in order for a better experience in testing. This will be a huge help since the Site Editor is an obvious thing we want to be testing regularly. @franz00 kindly provided some examples of this (replay recording 1, replay recording 2) while trying to replicate a current issue.
From there, @paaljoachim gave some UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. feedback around using replay and setting up bookmarks. After the call, he recorded the following video and passed along the following notes:
Oliver and Jason shared a link to Replay’s discord and GitHubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/ repo for folks to continue to share feedback.
Test automation
We briefly covered test automation where you can write your playwright tests and debug with Replay. There’s an effort in the WordPress project to switch to Playwright so it would be neat to explore more once the Replay Playwright integration is in a better spot.
Next steps
This post is a summary of the Find Your Style call for testing for the FSE outreach program, the twentieth effort. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
Shout out to @arasae for being the sole first time contributor for this call for testing. Expect a badge on your WordPress profiles for your contribution! Here’s a poem from ChatGPT to commemorate:
Oh, here's a badge for you, my friend, For contributing to testing's end. In the WordPress project you did your part, Finding bugs and fixing them with all your heart. You clicked and typed with skill and glee, Making sure that WordPress works perfectly. Your efforts are what makes this site so grand, So here's a badge, take it with a smile, hold it in your hand. It may be silly, it may be fun, But the hard work you've done can't be undone. So wear this badge with pride and might, For you are a champion of the testing site!
Feedback around the various style features was positive across the board, from the smaller features like applying styles globally or exploring the Stylebook. The value add and experience is clear with limited confusion around what each feature was doing. What remained for style items centered on feature requests, like the ability to have revisionsRevisions The WordPress revisions system stores a record of each saved draft or published update. The revision system allows you to see what changes were made in each revision by dragging a slider (or using the Next/Previous buttons). The display indicates what has changed in each revision. or for the randomizer to impact more color items, and usability feedback around things like the Settings icon changing.
Outside of styling related feedback, this test also focused on importing items from a classic theme to a blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. theme. The current experience of importing widgets, while functional, leaves a lot to be desired both in terms of additional optionality, like being able to import menus, and intuitiveness, particularly around how importing overwrites the current template part that was added. Much of the more critical feedback centered around this new pathway.
While not the main focus of the experience, it’s clear that the reimagined Site Editor experience with the introduction of Browse Mode is allowing folks to better navigate between pieces of one’s site and add good friction to the editing process.
For deeper context of someone going through the experience, here’s a video from @paaljoachim who has completed every single call for testing:
Separately, you can also watch a recap of group testing with Learn WordPress on WordPress TV.
First, I am in love with the new Site Editor UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it.. It’s exactly how I hoped it would be — so easy to get around with fewer clicks. Creating the new footer template part and importing the widgets was easy peasy.
@itsjustdj in this comment.
Making a change to a headerHeader The header of your site is typically the first thing people will experience. The masthead or header art located across the top of your page is part of the look and feel of your website. It can influence a visitor’s opinion about your content and you/ your organization’s brand. It may also look different on different screen sizes. or footer or some other template part being used in all templates and then applying it globally was really helpful!
@paaljoachim in this comment.
Once I found the Style Book, I liked the range of items I could edit. If I can edit the style of the menu, I would like to edit the mobile menu. Or make edits that only apply to the mobile version of the site. The lack of edit options for the mobile view reflects a question I am often asked by users, at least twice a week, “how do I edit my menu on mobile?
@jordesign in this comment.
“Push changes to Global Styles” worked really well…I was used to just starting to edit the Template, but the Edit button keeps me from messing something up before I’m actually ready to edit. I really appreciate that Edit button!
@antigone7 in this comment.
Honestly, I found creating a menu like classic themes more user-friendly. Maybe as an alternative a (new) block named “Classic Navigation Block” or something like that could be developed, which offers the options of a classic menu creation, but additionally the properties of the navigation block (color, fonts, typography, spacing, etc.) if possible.
@hage in this comment.
The following bugs were found in the current experience, one of which has not yet been replicated but was reported a few times.
New:
Previous:
When I first opened the Site Editor, at first the Header Navigation menuNavigation Menu A theme feature introduced with Version 3.0. WordPress includes an easy to use mechanism for giving various control options to get users to click from one place to another on a site. was not the menu that I had created before changing themes. The menu that showed was the All Pages menu, even though I didn’t have an All Pages menu before changing themes. When I left the Editor and came back, then my previously created “Main” menu appeared correctly.
@antigone7 in this comment.
It appears that some styles are universal instead of individual categories, which I thought would be the case from how “Style Book” is named. For example, I would think that users would change the borders setting to individual Images only, but the editor applied the same changes to Gallery as well.
@jordesign in this comment.
Items related to Browse Mode nicely matched what’s already being designed and built as the 6.2 cycle continues. What remains below matches what’s been raised previously and touches on some of what needs to be considered for phase 3, particularly around wanting better access to revisions.
The randomizer is fun. However it produces some non-accessible colors for Primary, Secondary and Tertiary, at least over a black background.
@robglidden in this comment.
Adding a yellow as background color I noticed that the Header template part is not all the way in the top of the page. I am curious why the Header is not nudged up against the top admin/canvas tool bar. I see the same on the frontend. Header is not all the way in the top of the page. It would be helpful to have the header in the top with no space above it. To where I need to explore how to remove the margin from somewhere in the header to get the header in the top of the page.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
With all the various changes I’ve done, I couldn’t help but notice the need of “what if” and wanted to use a previous style, but because I refreshed the editor, I couldn’t use a previous setup so I really felt the need of a revision system.
@jordesign in this comment.
Simplifying the importing widgetWidget A WordPress Widget is a small block that performs a specific function. You can add these widgets in sidebars also known as widget-ready areas on your web page. WordPress widgets were originally created to provide a simple and easy-to-use way of giving design and structure control of the WordPress theme to the user. process, confusion around the new Settings icon, and desire for clarity in returning to one’s dashboard with Browse Mode dominated the critical usability feedback. This last piece of feedback has already been addressed in time for the WordPress 6.2 release. Positive feedback balanced out the discussion when it came to using the Styling features, having one’s custom menu automatically imported, and using Browse Mode. The base experience of improved out of the box defaults, customization tools, and moving between pieces of one’s site continues to ease and is reflected in the responses.
I created a new footer template part named “My New Footer” but when I imported the widgets into it, it created an entirely new template part named “Widget area: footer” and deleted “My New Footer” (though it still existed in Template Parts).
@robglidden in this comment.
After importing the footer widget contents, it looked really messy and it wasn’t immediately clear in the list view as to how everything was ‘stacked’ or laid out. It took adding a new column block to the footer and dragging/dropping the footer groups into each column, to have it appear in a neater and more coherent way.
@jordesign in this comment.
A Noticing: There was no padding or margin added around the new Widgets Footer at all when they were first moved over from classic theme to block theme; I wonder if there is a way to match the padding or margins of this new Widget area to match the existing look and feel of the site?
@arasae in this comment.
It took me a moment to find and get used to the Block Settings icon — I kept looking for the gear. But it makes sense to use a different icon, since the gear icon is now used to differentiate from styles in those settings. I’m sure I’ll get used to it.
@itsjustdj in this comment.
It is not clear that one needs to click the W to return to the Dashboard. Cursor changes to a finger but it is not obvious where it would go. Here it would be helpful with some kind of some sort. Perhaps a tooltip over the W which says something like “Return to Dashboard” ?
@paaljoachim in this comment.
Inside “Style Books,” it’s hard to scroll through the different “Style Books” without a mouse, and it does not appear to work with the arrow keys on your keyboard.
@jordesign in this comment.
This post is a summary of the Running Through Refinements call for testing for the FSE outreach program, the nineteenth effort. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
Shout out to @pauthake015 @wesleyrakshit @bgoewert @georginareeder @haeunpark @teresagobble @magicroundabout @ccwalburn @alexandretp @lanesdon @ioanamuresan @plari @jartes for being first time contributors. Expect a badge on your WordPress profiles for your contribution! What a lovely and large crew of new contributors to celebrate.
Feedback for all of the tested features was generally positive with folks able to see how what’s being worked on unites and moves forward the Site Editor experience. As always, there were also noted bugs, feature requests, and areas of refinement that mostly matched either current priorities or previously reported items, underscoring where the experience needs to move towards. Overall, three specific areas of iterations stood out outside of the positive feedback:
Folks were impressed by Browse mode and the potential for it to help orient users to the Site Editor and its capabilities by emphasizing templates from the start with friction before editing. Moving Styles to this same section has already been listed as a next step and was reflected in the feedback as folks continue to look for clear delineation between what impacts a site globally.
The Navigation BlockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience.’s editable list view managed to strike a nice balance between the current List View experience and the prior menu management experience in Classic menus. This nice middle ground familiarity resulted in mostly excitement and ease, with continued feedback for refinement and desired functionality.
Finally, the Style Book and Previews were a hit with minor bugs to resolve. It’s clear both will make a large difference in empowering folks to customize their sites and understand the global impact of their changes.
First of all – I simply love the new concept. I love the list in the sidebarSidebar A sidebar in WordPress is referred to a widget-ready area used by WordPress themes to display information that is not a part of the main content. It is not always a vertical column on the side. It can be a horizontal rectangle below or above the content area, footer, header, or any where in the theme. – it feels more natural to see list there and content in the main panel; I really like the Edit button – it makes a huge difference in terms of clarity of the intent to change – and I anticipate we’ll see less mistakes. Overall I detect a ‘feel good’ factor and am excited to see these live.
@ioanamuresan in this comment.
Overall, I really enjoyed navigating through browse mode – the ability to easily view templates in the Site Editor and preview each one before going in to edit is a great experience… I also really love how much easier it is to see your navigation menuNavigation Menu A theme feature introduced with Version 3.0. WordPress includes an easy to use mechanism for giving various control options to get users to click from one place to another on a site. items in the sidebar here. Dragging and dropping menu/sub-menu/sub-sub-menu items is really easy and smooth.
@georginareeder in this comment.
I really like the split of settings in the sidebar – the navigation feels like a place where it makes sense conceptually to break them up that way… The Style Book is pretty much the greatest thing since sliced bread! It really feels like a game-changer to me – and I personally found it a way more usable to browse and edit the styles.
@jordesign in this comment.
I love that choosing Appearance > Edit now opens the editor with the sidebar so that you can see the options for Templates and Template Parts. I also like that you have to click Edit to edit the home page when you first access it. I think that makes it much clearer than immediately being thrown into the editor without a good understanding of where you are or what you are editing…I love the updates to the Navigation block and being able to add and configure menu items in the right sidebar! I didn’t have any trouble updating or creating menus with the new format…I experimented with the Replace option on the Query loop and found the patterns confusing. I couldn’t easily tell where one pattern ended and another began, and after I selected some of them, they looked different than I expected.
@ccwalburn in this comment.
I really liked the way the Navigation editing worked! It was so easy to manage. I also liked having the Stylebook available. I always have to create a page with all the blocks I want to use and style. The Stylebook makes it so much easier.
@antigone7 in this comment.
The following bugs were found in the current experience, some of which have already been fixed.
New
Previous:
Much of the feedback on Browse mode and the Navigation block matched what has already been noted or planned, underscoring the work that remains. In particular, at the beginning of the call for testing, there were repeated notes about the “Edit” button not being visible in Browse mode which was quickly iterated upon as the test continued. Finally, while the Navigation Block’s UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it. improves, there are still repeated calls for deeper customization options both around mobile menus/overlays and things like hover styles in the UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing..
Seemed to me that naming and renaming the menu should be somewhere more intuitive than under Settings > Advanced. Maybe next to the create button, or simply by clicking on the name of the menu. Or when creating menu?
@robglidden in this comment.
I find myself wanting some more description than just “Single.” If I customized these all for myself, maybe this would be enough to remind me what each one is.
@clubkert in this comment.
I really wanted drag-and-drop handles on the left-and-right-hand panels to be able to resize them.
@magicroundabout in this comment.
Pattern selection for the Query Loop block, renaming the Navigation block, and visibility of default design tool options stood out as the most repeated feedback across each response. Outside of the critical feedback below, many folks found a much improved experience with each feature noting a much easier time creating and customizing menus, styling across one’s site with the preview and Style Book options, and quickly maneuvering through templates.
The ‘list view’ vs ‘grid view’ to show patterns for the query loop is not intuitive. It is not clear that the ‘list view’ is showing a single pattern option, with the ability to scroll sideways to view others. When first seeing the ‘list’ vs ‘grid’ tabs in Choose Pattern, I would have expected that to have ‘single’ vs ‘grid’ pattern options – Similar to how the same buttons in the Query Loop toolbar determine whether they will appear in a list or grid view. None of the pattern options show ‘Grid with Images’; aka what shows up when you click the Grid button in the Block toolbar.
@alexandretp in this comment.
I found the dragging dropping of menu items in the right sidebar a bit eventful. Had a hard time positioning where I wanted them. If I accidentally indented them an extra level, I couldn’t go back just one level – I had to move it to the main menu, then reattempt to add it as a 1st level submenu. That said, it’s waaaaaay more clear and manageable than before so I think this is a significant improvement.
@ioanamuresan in this comment.
Clicking the black + square to add a link brings up a module which has too much focus on open in new tab and Transform. It would be helpful to better integrate selecting a page or post into this modul. It really needs a redesign making it a lot easier to select what one needs.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
I miss a “learning mode” (that can be switched off and on) with extra explanations for each option (and links to docs) in context.
@juanmaguitar in this comment.
I found myself clicking (and double clicking) the menu item itself to try to edit it which did nothing (vs. clicking the pencil).
@clubkert in this comment.
I find it confusing that it says “Browse styles”, when you are actually choosing, not browsing, a style variation.
@robglidden in this comment.
It bothers me that the role of the “W” logo in the top-right seems to change. Historically the WordPress logo takes you to the Dashboard, but when editing it takes you back a step. I found this confusing… I also generally dislike the fact that so many icons are non-standard and don’t have text labels. This makes it very hard for a new person to navigate the user interface. Yet when I turned labels on the experience was WORSE with labels being chopped off and it not being clear what anything did…I like the idea of tabs rather than LOOOOoooonnngg settings screens, but I don’t like the icons. Turning text labels on in the preferences didn’t seem to have any effect on the sidebar. Again, icons-plus-labels would be a much better option here. I really disliked having additional style settings turn-on-and-offable in the sidebar behind the three-dots menu thing. And I could not find how to make the text bold (eventually found as “appearance” but this should be “weight”).
@magicroundabout in this comment.
This is a summary of a Hallway Hangout that was wrangled in the #fse-outreach-experiment channel as part of the FSE Outreach Program. Thank you to everyone who joined in!
Attendance:
Daisy Olsen, Justin Tadlock, Anne McCarthy, Michael Burridge, JuanMa Garrido, Damon Cook, Rich Tabor, Jessica Lyschik, Paal Joachim Romdahl, Birgit Pauli-Haack, Ganga Kafle.
Video Recording:
Topics:
General Updates
Future of Custom CSSCSS CSS is an acronym for cascading style sheets. This is what controls the design or look and feel of a site. discussion
This post is a summary of the Site Editor Sneak Peek for the FSE outreach program, the eighteenth effort. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
Shout out to @worldomonation @wpchai @sereedmedia @jordesign @goblinartificer @rwye1 @nigeljoy @vinnykaur @augustuswp for being first time contributors. Expect a badge on your WordPress profiles for your contribution!
Important note: compared to other summaries, this summary is going to be simply divided between each task with indications of bugs vs enhancements to better reflect how the exploration was conducted and to make the information easier to consume.
For anyone wanting to see folks run through the experience, here are videos from a few contributors who very kindly recorded and passed along their experience for others to benefit from:
Walkthrough from @piermario
Walkthrough from @paaljoachim
Overall, browse mode felt modern and smooth with a few key items around general usability to level up what’s possible: more visible edit button, clearer way to get back to the dashboard, and breadcrumbs/more understanding of where you are in the site editor. Each of these items are listed as follow up to-dos as part of this broader effort so expect to see quick iteration here. Some feedback came in around how jarring the zoom out view was and that was partially due to this exploration testing an earlier version of what’s now being worked on, where those issues have been smoothed out as the work has evolved.
Finally, two folks mentioned expecting to have a headerHeader The header of your site is typically the first thing people will experience. The masthead or header art located across the top of your page is part of the look and feel of your website. It can influence a visitor’s opinion about your content and you/ your organization’s brand. It may also look different on different screen sizes. or footer pattern that was selected from the Inserter to automatically replace the current header/footer in the site editor and expressed confusion when that didn’t happen. While this is intentional in the current experience and there’s currently a replace option built into template parts, it’s worth noting in case it becomes a trend.
Everything except the final item below are enhancements pulled from the shared feedback:
I still think that getting back out to the Dashboard could be more obvious. I’ve been working in it for a while now so I know that clicking the W gets you there, but if I was just encountering this for the first time, I would be looking for a “Dashboard” button or link.
@itsjustdj in this comment.
When I tried to add a new header pattern, it ended up being placed within the existing header. When adding a pattern to the header or footer, maybe ask if it should replace the existing header? In my case, it was within the existing one, so it was hard to remove the old blocks.
@clubkert in this comment.
It would be cool if while dragging the pattern on the page, its shape and proportions were kept so that 1) you have a better idea of where it’s going to be placed and 2) you have a better idea of the space and position on the page.
@piermario in this comment.
Pattern library is categorized nicely and easy to navigate.
@nigeljoy in this comment.
Generally speaking, a few folks struggled with the Maze option that was used to create the prototype, finding it to be a bit too constrained to get a full sense of the experience. This is something to consider when it comes to future experiments and thoughtfully considering when it makes sense to use a tool like this again. Outside of that, the feedback was overall extremely positive with folks being able to see how this takes a big step in a better direction for the navigation experience. With the more scaled back experience, feedback was limited to two items: desire for a cue for folks to open the sidebar for those who might have it collapsed and curiosity around how sub-menus will be handled. Stay tuned for a more comprehensive call for testing when the feature is further along.
It was exponentially better. Much more in line with my other block and site editor UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. expectations.
@sereedmedia in this comment.
Having some settings or the possibility to edit a menu in the sidebar is a step in the right direction, but it feels crammed and is still way less intuitive than the previous experience. If I want to add a link to a page or a categoryCategory The 'category' taxonomy lets you group posts / content together that share a common bond. Categories are pre-defined and broad ranging., I’d expect an option to choose that, not a custom link block.
@piermario in this comment.
I’m a big fan of anything that makes managing menus easier. This seems MUCH clearer on the steps of dealing with your existing menu and making changes.
@jordesign in this comment.
I wish we’d been able to see what setting up submenus will look like, since I suspect that’ll be one of the biggest remaining sticking points (that and mobile layout, which I’d love to see as well). beyond that, I’m wondering if there’ll be a cue for those who have that sidebar collapsed, so that they know it needs to be popped out to edit the menu items.
@goblinartificer in this comment.
Beyond a few specific pieces of feedback below, most folks found this feature to be neat and easy to use but in some ways lacking in practical application with a few wondering if they would end up using it. On the flip side, others could see how it would speed up site creation for both block themers and end users alike.
I think it would be more useful if the user could pick between random colors themes (say, pastel, neon, duotone and such). That and allowing only accessible color combination could turn this into an actually useful tool.
@piermario in this comment.
It’s also an opportunity for users who have trouble coming up with color schemes to find something that works faster than using the color sliders or hex values for each element.
@itsjustdj in this comment.
I tried this out on a newly installed theme to customize the style variations, and use it in tandem with Create Block Theme plugin to create custom style and a child themeChild theme A Child Theme is a customized theme based upon a Parent Theme. It’s considered best practice to create a child theme if you want to modify the CSS of your theme. https://developer.wordpress.org/themes/advanced-topics/child-themes/.. This is good. It really speeds things up & definitely useful. Just one note, perhaps the randomizer engine would generate a more contrasting color palette.
@franz00 in this comment.
Clicking it a bunch of times will cycle through various colors. What if I want to go back to the colors I had before clicking the Randomize colors button? It would be nice with a method to go back to the default color palette before I started randomizing the colors.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
Some items of feedback didn’t fit in nicely to the specific features being tested but are worth mentioning, namely as they are all repeat enhancement items that have come up before:
I kept unchecking the box to save the template part, but this preference wasn’t remembered the next time I went to save. I felt like it should remember that (at least until I made another edit to that template part).
@clubkert in this comment.
When I viewed a preview of the page in a new tab, it just took me to the home page. Upon looking again, it says that the link is to “view site”, but this was not what I was used to from using this functionality in the page/post editor.
@clubkert in this comment.
Under Styles > Typography > Elements > (choose one) > Line Height, clicking on the “+” will set the value to 0.1 even if a default value exists (eg. 1.5).
@worldomonation in this comment.
This is a summary of a Hallway Hangout that was wrangled in the #fse-outreach-experiment channel as part of the FSE Outreach Program. Thank you to everyone who joined in!
Attendance:
Jeff Ong, Ellen Bauer, Nick Diego, and Edwin Cromley
Video Recording:
Topics:
We covered a wide variety of topics: the outreach program’s future, updates for the 6.1 release, aspects of phase 2 to wrap up, the current experience of developing and maintaining blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. themes, and more.
What will happen to the outreach program now that 6.1 is out?
The outreach program is continuing as is! When it comes time to wind it down, it will be heavily communicated and, ideally, continued in some form or another. As with “gradual adoption” of FSE features, expect a more gradual phasing out.
Various updates around 6.1
We chatted through some of the key feedback coming in with 6.1 released last week. This was shared publicly in the release leads channel prior to the call.
Managing updates for block themes
The discussion around 6.1 feedback led to a conversation about managing updates for block themes. In particular, there were some layout changes that needed to be managed. Keeping up with these changes for each release can lead to a feeling of “Why did we build these themes already?!” when there’s so much to keep on top of with each release. It still is taking a lot of work with each release.
@bph the idea was brought up to have a compressed set of links to follow based on audience perhaps for the Developer blog, inspired by Rich Tabor’s twitter roundup. We discussed how there were also 2x the number of dev notes for this release compared to 5.9 and 6.0.
In general, there seems to be a cycle of finding a solution to work around current limitations > the gap getting filled in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. > needing to update > cycle repeats. There are questions around when this process will get less intense.
Themeshaper
Questions around themeshaper came up with folks wanting to see more there and reminiscing on the kinds of posts that were shared previously as being quite illuminating. Speaking personally, I’m now trying to share more directly in Core when posting but it is an “outlet” that would be great to see revived.
Pixl theme discussion
After Matt tweeted about the Pixl theme, this led to questions around: “Is this the direction we’re heading in? Is it meant to be super simple block theme? Am I overcomplicating it somehow?” We talked about how it was likely just a note about a cool, quirky theme and that ultimately block themes are for all cases (or will be in the future as functionality grows). The goal is to do everything, from very simple to very high level. Nick shared that he’s, “Taking a lot of block themes and throwing them away. I took what was available and took it to the next level, like custom classes or custom code, that block themes couldn’t do at that time. Now, I’m stripping it out and refreshing it with a much simpler architecture.” Ellen is doing the same and it’s a lot of work. From there, you have to consider propagating updates. While this is a big part of being an early adopter, it’s still worth noting and it becomes intimidating to step into eCommerce considering.
Stability for maintenance & stability for UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it. of block themes
We talked about how there’s a split when talking about stability: stability of block themes in terms of less maintenance and stability of the UX for end users of block themes. We discussed how patterns are a big deal for UX in general and shared some examples of using starter patterns, with Nick sharing a great resource he wrote.
Latest Phase 2 Update
We went through the latest phase 2 overview issue update, talking at a high level about what’s to come and how work is progressing. This included a lot of discussion around the ability to save, import, and export variations. Feedback was given that style variations are often ignored for clients and that it would be more useful to be able to copy style variations/copying block styles. At the same time, being able to import/export your own branding via style variations would also be wildly helpful.
What about removing the beta label?
We ended by talking about the betaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. label, how it’s likely slated for 6.2, how another update will need to be done to ensure the issue is up to date, and how the label itself might change away from just “editor”.
This is a summary of a Hallway Hangout that was wrangled in the #fse-outreach-experiment channel as part of the FSE Outreach Program. Thank you to everyone who joined in!
Attendance: Rich Tabor, Damon Cook, Courtney Roberston, Paal Joachim Romdahl, Jeff Ong, Nick Diego, Vagelis, Sé Reed, Piermario Orecchioni.
Video Recording:
Topics:
The main topic centered around the work underway to wrap phase 2 gathered in this overview issue. Expect regular updates to this issue and know that other work will continue but there’s a big emphasis to complete the tasks outlined there.
As of last week, the following was in place:
From there, we dug into the following individual issues to chat through at a high level what we were seeing. At a high level, it stuck out to folks how many different explorations there are, conflicting designs at times, etc. By doing this work concurrently, these differences can be resolved and the solutions refined together.
Introduce “Browser” and surface main navigation UI.
We talked about how this was a change in the entrance to the site editor just as much as it was for navigating between content. There was a desire to be able to click on the site title in the nav component to take you to the front end of the site. We discussed the important of accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility) testing for this change and it’s top of mind to test for the FSE Outreach Program.
Global styles: Offer a way to view a document containing all blocks and styles
Make it possible to push local block styles to global block styles
Using the template editor for plugins
Media library getting the “FSE treatment”
Feedback on the Quick Inserter prioritizing patterns in certain circumstances
Other topics and questions
Folks shared that responsiveness is still a big topic along with navigation block. Multiple people echoed both. Damon shared in the chat: “The Navigation block has SO much complexity, but tackling the challenges will likely surface many great ideas that can be rolled out to other blocks that have complete UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing./interaction”. Finally, we chatted at the end about the history of the Query LoopLoop The Loop is PHP code used by WordPress to display posts. Using The Loop, WordPress processes each post to be displayed on the current page, and formats it according to how it matches specified criteria within The Loop tags. Any HTML or PHP code in the Loop will be processed on each post. https://codex.wordpress.org/The_Loop. block naming (why not loop?), where folks can report issues when 6.1 is out in the wild, and what’s next for the FSE Outreach Program.
This post is a summary of the seventeenth call for testing for the FSE outreach program. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
Finally, thanks for the patience as this recap took a bit more time to get done, due to balancing other responsibilities with 6.1.
In many ways, this post could be split equally between the zoomed out view and navigation blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. as that’s where much of the focus of feedback is centered. To make it easier to see the emphasis on zoomed out view and navigation block in the feedback from folks, each item of feedback has been clearly labeled.
In general, the zoomed out view proved to be seen as a high value add with folks immediately appreciating the value when switching between style variations and only a few bugs/enhancements found. It’s clear that, in time, having this view invoked contextually when doing things like changing style variations or adding patterns will be advantageous to the site editing experience when you need a way to see a broader view.
In terms of the navigation block, feedback underscored that it remains clunky to use. With this test focused on theme switching it highlighted that, while 6.1 brings huge strides in terms of fallbacks, work remains to be done even for basic site switching experience. Due to the complexity of the navigation block, various issues surrounding using the block itself were also noted including overlap issues when managing sub-menu items, a desire to have a more dedicated way to quickly alter the structure of the menu items, and confusion around the “double click to edit” experience that prioritizes selecting a container block rather than inner blocks at first.
Beyond these two buckets of feedback, some high level items remained including a need to properly migrate widgets to block themes as that’s a key part of the experience currently lacking that causes content loss. Tied to this, various pain points in style switching, a big part of Twenty Twenty-Three, were noted including a lack of clarity around how changes to a style variation wipes out previous manual edits to styles and a delay in the changes to a style variations appearing on the front end of a site. More simply, this test also showed how opening up access to edit these parts of your site also requires a more streamlined way to make common changes, like changing basic colors (background) in a new template, without impacting the entire site.
O that is very very nice! I like being zoomed out and viewing the page while clicking the various styles! It gives a really nice overview!
@paaljoachim in this comment.
I feel like novice users likely don’t know the implication of what will change with their theme. They might assume that the colors/styles may change, but not necessarily structural changes (like having to re-do the menu). I wonder if there is some way to give users (maybe just those that haven’t switched themes before) some more information about this.
@clubkert in this comment.
Adding a way to edit the menu via a drag and drop interface in a modal window or something would be nice, precise clicking and adding submenus was tricky for me, whereas the WordPress standard way of editing menus is quite easy to work with.
@chopinbach in this comment.
I noticed that when I switched from Twenty Twenty One to Twenty Twenty Two the navigation changed and lost the previous menu. That’s unexpected and not great.… When clicking on manage menus, I was actually hoping to find the old menu interface where I could easily drag and drop menu items, add classes, and enable different items still not shown in the menu (Product categories, languages, etc.). My dreamy dream wish would be to select a menu in the sidebarSidebar A sidebar in WordPress is referred to a widget-ready area used by WordPress themes to display information that is not a part of the main content. It is not always a vertical column on the side. It can be a horizontal rectangle below or above the content area, footer, header, or any where in the theme. and be shown the “classic” editing interface for that menu, right away…Menus were one of the ways I often used to wow friends and customers about how simple WordPress menus were, and even newbies would get it right away. Coming from Joomla! Everybody was pretty impressed in a positive way.The block menu system still often feels like a collection of somewhat unrelated blocks, that won’t even update links when page slugs are changed. The menu experience really feels needlessly clunky and not intuitive to me. I wonder how new users feel about it.
@piermario in this comment (merged a few different lines).
For any folks who want to watch a group go through this experience, check out the following video:
The following bugs were found in the current experience, some of which have already been fixed:
When selecting a pattern from the footer categoryCategory The 'category' taxonomy lets you group posts / content together that share a common bond. Categories are pre-defined and broad ranging., it gets added as Group. When it’s just a Group, the Replace functionality is not available. In order to use the Replace functionality, you have to first add a Footer block and then select one of the footer patterns from there. I guess this can be confusing for some people expecting to see the Replace menu item, when there is none.
@luminuu in this comment.
It’s important to note that most folks mentioned wanting to see a different icon for the zoomed out view. In the issue introducing this feature itself, the icon was a topic of conversation but, in the long term, this isn’t truly meant to be a “standalone” tool to toggle on/off. Rather, it’s meant to be a view that is embedded intuitively throughout the experience. To get a sense of what that might look like, here are two examples where this mode would be “invoked” while taking specific actions where the view is most helpful: when the patterns tab is open in the Inserter and when switching between style variations. For this reason, an issue was not open.
Continuing to do work that improves the “out of the box” default options of the navigation block remains incredibly valuable, from better fallbacks to preventing accidental duplication of imports.
Zooming worked well to see what was there. I was able to insert new sections or patterns. I could also rearrange sections. I was not able to replace or delete any sections. (Not sure if that’s an option yet.)
@antigone7 in this comment.
When I edit the template in zoomed out mode and have selected a Group block or HeaderHeader The header of your site is typically the first thing people will experience. The masthead or header art located across the top of your page is part of the look and feel of your website. It can influence a visitor’s opinion about your content and you/ your organization’s brand. It may also look different on different screen sizes./Footer via the List View, the blue lines surrounding the selected group are very thin and almost not visible.
@luminuu in this comment.
When I switched, the home page title showed up (where it wasn’t there before), the menu changed, and my twitter feed was now gone (that I had added to the footer).
@clubkert in this comment.
Much of the usability feedback came in around the zoomed out view and navigation block. For the zoomed out view, there was a desire for more functionality, from a way to control how much zoom occurred to being able to take action on each section (delete/swap/etc). Rather than opening individual issues for these items, this recap is going to rely on the current designs that include these items for consideration with comments left on the main issue. For the navigation block, the feedback heavily indicated that the current experience of controlling and rearranging menu items is still too difficult, especially when a “convert to links” step has to happen. There are numerous efforts in progress to ease this from a way to edit the navigation in isolation to an editable “list view” style mode in the block settings.
Click once to zoom a specific amount of percentage and click again to zoom out even further. So that one can choose between two zoom modes of how far out one views the page from.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
Repeatedly one click on the Navigation did not do anything. I had to double click it.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
If I change the styles manually (colors, etc.) then switch to a different style variation, there is no way to get back to my previous version. There is also no warning that I will be losing all of my hard work.
@clubkert in this comment.
It would be nice if the Navigation Menus in the top right of the toolbar allowed you to edit the items or if you could open a modal window to quickly edit the structure of the menu that would be easier.
@chopinbach in this comment.
Yay! Header and Footer patterns is one of the things I’ve been trying to discover, but I could never really find where this task could be done. So yay for the world of design options this feature opens, but unfortunately not so yay for the discoverability of this feature, which I find very interesting and fun.
@piermario in this comment.
This post is a summary of the sixteenth call for testing for the FSE outreach program. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
High-level summary
Because this call for testing allowed for folks to explore different areas as much or as little as they wanted to, feedback was mainly caught up in the minutiae of larger features and experiences. Throughout each of these individual points, it’s very clear that an effort to take a step back and stabilize the following would go a long way in particular:
Outside of the above, Patterns and Document Settings both received very little if any critical feedback, reflecting the strength of the current experience. For any designers and developers who want to see someone walk through the experience, I want to also mention the following videos from @paaljoachim to check out as you see fit:
Confirmed Bugs
The following bugs were found in the current experience, all of which were new:
The transforms all worked as expected, however some of the transforms were not super intuitive at first but I think made sense after I understood what they were doing. The transform to columns on multiple clicks of it ended up creating many many columns blocks wrapped inside each other. It was not clear why columns was an option to transform to, but now I am assuming it is so that you can quickly wrap an element into a columns block.
@chopinbach in this comment.
Another time, when I was looking to transform a heading, the “preview” would sometimes be cut off. You can see this in the below video, especially the preview for transforming it to a paragraph. What’s odd is that hovering up and down over the different options, it sometimes displayed correctly and sometimes not.
@clubkert in this comment.
It is a mystery to me when or why this happens. It seems to happen more when I drop to the end of the post, but it also happens when I drop the row between two paragraphs.
@robglidden in this comment.
Feature Requests
At a high level, most feature requests related to better organization for block transforms as folks ran into various dead ends and clunky steps to switch between blocks:
For the final item around having a way to revert to an original image, this stands out as particularly important to consider when one looks ahead at the various options potentially added to image alterations in the future, from duotone to object fit options.
Changing a paragraph into any blocks can easily be reverted back into a Paragraph Block, except when it is changed to a Code Block. While one can easily unwrap a quote back to a paragraph, or revert a pullquote, a preformatted, a verse, a heading, or a list back to paragraph block. The same effortlessness is gone once the paragraph is transformed to a Code Block. Here one is faced with unintuitive options to operate on the Code Block (quote, preformatted, group, columns, custom HTMLHTML HTML is an acronym for Hyper Text Markup Language. It is a markup language that is used in the development of web pages and websites.). To transform the Code Block into a paragraph, it needs to be changed into a Preformatted Block first.
@franz00 in this comment.
I cannot remove a crop on an image, only replace it with the original from the media library. I would like to be told a new image was created. It would be nice if the image block would be smart enough to have a “revert to original” button and know which image in the media library to revert to.
@robglidden in this comment.
General Usability
As mentioned in the high level overview, both drag & drop and block transforms were key items that recurred throughout this call for testing. This was particularly true when thinking about usability since, at times, transforms felt smooth and obvious whereas at other points it led you through what one described as a “labyrinth”. Drag and drop felt similarly inconsistent with the ability to both easily move a large collection of blocks in one moment and the next being unable to add a block to an empty Columns block.
Text transforms generally worked fine, but feels a bit like a labyrinth. As there are different transforms based on what the current block is. It feels a bit random.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
The transform to columns on multiple clicks of it ended up creating many many columns blocks wrapped inside each other. It was not clear why columns was an option to transform to, but now I am assuming it is so that you can quickly wrap an element into a columns block…Changing blocks to another type and eventually not being able to change back to the original type was somewhat frustrating, but not a big deal.
@chopinbach in this comment.
It is sometimes strange when you want to move a section somewhere else in the list view with the mouse. The positioning is not always cleanly possible.
@hage in this comment.
One thing I noticed was the cover block gave me an option to convert it to an image block (which made sense). The other options were column block or group block. When I tried the group block, it didn’t actually transform into a group block. It created a group block on top of (or around? not sure what the right terminology) the existing cover block. This actually seemed useful. But isn’t what I would have thought by “transform.”
@clubkert in this comment.
Moving images is done successfully both by drag & drop the blocks in the List View, and by using the move up/down chevrons in the image’s Block Toolbar. But the image movement is failed when I use the Move to option in the image’s Block Toolbar. Or perhaps my expectation isn’t inline with its designated usage.
@franz00 in this comment.
This post is a summary of the fifteenth call for testing for the FSE outreach program. As always, I want to highlight those who helped to bring others along with them in this latest effort:
Shout out to @clubkert @chopinbach @franz00 @osamunize @eboxnet for being first time contributors. Expect a badge on your WordPress profiles for your contribution!
High-level summary
As with prior calls for testing that centered on using the Query LoopLoop The Loop is PHP code used by WordPress to display posts. Using The Loop, WordPress processes each post to be displayed on the current page, and formats it according to how it matches specified criteria within The Loop tags. Any HTML or PHP code in the Loop will be processed on each post. https://codex.wordpress.org/The_Loop. blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience., the current experience remains equal parts magical and clunky to configure exactly as one wants. When combined with the fact that when creating a new template, you’re met with an empty view, this call for testing mainly weights towards feature requests to ease the experience rather than outright bugs. Of all of what’s shared here, these are the most repeated items of feedback: unclear UX for how to get out of a locked block with headings & paragraph blocks, improve the verbiage around the Query Block settings and revise Query Block controls, edit site link should open the current template, and add fallback template content on creation.
The addition of starter patterns with locked blocks when creating a new post offered a peak at how streamlined and curated the experience can be while also revealing that more visual cues are needed to better understand what exactly is happening, particularly with locked blocks and layout controls. Most of what was discussed matches what has been previously found which underscores the impact resolving these repeated key problems will have.
For any designers and developers who want to see someone walk through the experience, I want to also mention the following videos to check out to see the call for testing in action:
To help ground the following feedback, here are some quotes about the overall experience to keep in mind:
It’s so smooth and easy. The fact that you can create template overrides for specific categories is brilliant. I can’t wait to use that on a custom theme with custom blocks. Post patterns are also great!
@eboxnet in this comment.
So cool to see how far FSE has come and all of the improvements related to templates. We’re getting closer to the power of the template hierarchy of traditional themes!
@bgturner in this comment.
Selecting “categoryCategory The 'category' taxonomy lets you group posts / content together that share a common bond. Categories are pre-defined and broad ranging.” from the “Add new” template menu was unintuitive for me. That UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it. implies to me that I could add many “category” templates, which is not true. That confused me as to whether I would be creating a “category” template for every type of category, or choosing which categories to assign the template to. When I realized I couldn’t add another “category” I figured out what was going on…I enjoyed playing around with the featured imageFeatured image A featured image is the main image used on your blog archive page and is pulled when the post or page is shared on social media. The image can be used to display in widget areas on your site or in a summary list of posts. / cover interaction and the “inner blocks use full width” feature. At the end of the test it was also cool to see the category template in use.
@arturgrabo in this comment.
Maybe I am too used to classic WordPress themes with headerHeader The header of your site is typically the first thing people will experience. The masthead or header art located across the top of your page is part of the look and feel of your website. It can influence a visitor’s opinion about your content and you/ your organization’s brand. It may also look different on different screen sizes. and footer pretty much always there. But it was very easy to create the template without a footer or header. Which obviously is cool that you can do that, but for whatever reason my brain was expecting header and footer to be auto included by default.
@chopinbach in this comment.
Confirmed Bugs
Previously reported:
New issues:
Locked heading blocks in the provided templates were super, duper frustrating. With normal heading blocks, if I press “return” at the end of a heading I get a paragraph block. With the locked headings I got stuck in the heading blocks. This felt like a major departure from typical interactions in the block editor.
@arturgrabo in this comment.
Feature Requests
As reflected in the high level summary, most feature requests have been mentioned before with a particular focus on various refinements, like adding a “view site” link in the editor or renaming “default template” in the template panel to match what one would see in the template list. While these are listed as feature requests, the lack of each adds up quickly creating an experience that accomplishes what you want but not without repeated moments of confusion.
New issues:
Previously reported:
Another thing that feels a bit bumpy is when saving the template, there’s no way to quickly access your site again.
@luminuu in this comment.
It sometimes feels like I am “trapped” in the site editor without an easy way to get back to the dashboard. One suggestion would be having a dropdown to select whether I want to go back to the dashboard vs. see Site/Template/Template part editor. Similarly, I sometimes wish there was a “view site” option from the site editor. Again, I feel trapped.
@clubkert in this comment
I would prefer to have the same experience each time. It’s confusing to suddenly see patterns when I was expecting blocks. I would like to always see blocks first with a button or such to switch to the patterns.
@antigone7 in this comment.
I found that a different role will have a slightly different saving experience. Under administrator role, after I clicked publish for a new event or a new event recap, a suggestion menu to assign a category appeared. But this didn’t happen under an author role. So, author will have to go back to post tab, if she just remembered that she hasn’t assigned an event category to the post.
@franz00 in this comment.
It works very well, as long as you remember to select “Inherit query from template” when you add the Query Loop. (I forget sometimes.) So I had different templates for one category over all the others.
@antigone7 in this comment.
So I would prefer if it said “Template Single” instead of “Template Default Template”. Or maybe “Template Single (Default)”, though I don’t see how being shown Single is the default is really helpful at that moment.
@robglidden in this comment.
General Usability
Feedback from this experience centered heavily on the Query Loop block and template creation experiences, rather than using block locking or post patterns or the featured image in the Cover block, despite those being newer features. As with every call for testing where a new template is being created, the experience of being dropped into an empty template to build from scratch is underwhelming. Determining when and how to use various settings for controlling both layout and query options continues to be a major pain pointPain point Pain points are “places where you know from research or analytics that users are currently getting hung up and have to ask questions, or are likely to abandon the site or app.” — Design for Real Life. This will likely be eased when better defaults are available (Query loop block automatically added with “inherit query by default” set to true) rather than needing to create more from scratch, even with patterns.
Please ensure to read the quotes below as they help give context to what’s shared below as simple issues.
I really liked the “Inner blocks use full width” option, but I could not figure out what the “Wide” setting did. Changing the value didn’t do anything, and both the icon and description were unclear.
@arturgrabo in this comment.
In the template editor, I was expecting the center-top dropdown (which said home initially) to allow me to easily switch to different templates.
@clubkert in this comment.
When using the query loop block, it isn’t immediately obvious how to view other design options. One suggestion would be to have the grid view displayed by default and allow someone to choose the single view as an option.
@clubkert in this comment.
I don’t mind curated blocks or locked blocks at all… I only wish that the visual editor will prepare me (or the common user as the intended user of a bespoke theme) when dealing with curated blocks…Perhaps giving the curated block a different color? Or any sign that it is not your usual kind of block?
@franz00 in this comment.
When selecting an “Event Recap” pattern, the caption was not visible in the preview because the pattern was too long vertically, and had to scroll to confirm it.
@osamunize in this comment.
Editing the layout of a group is a little tricky. I think getting more comfortable with the UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. would help, but having additional feedback around what is selected and where I can move things would be helpful.
@bgturner in this comment.
This blur is too strong/too much contrast. It would be helpful with a much more subtle blur. As the current background blur is exhausting on the eyes.
@paaljoachim in this comment.
The Inherit query from template toggle is not obvious for the average non-dev to enable.
@courane01 in this comment.
