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  • Xavier Borderie 2:13 pm on November 24, 2012 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

      xibefr_FR GTEfr_FR editor
      Tags: , Waiting   

      Hello there,

      A question more for the GlotPress-inclined: I’m uploading my .po translations to translate.wp.org, but somehow, for the admin .po, some strings are still marked as “waiting” even though they are translated in the .po
      Those strings were translated by users on t.w.o. Do I have to dismiss them first before I upload my translation?

      Merci !

    • OC2PS 10:53 am on April 22, 2012 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

        sooskrisztahu_HU PTE
        Tags: , , Waiting   

        How exactly does http://translate.wordpress.org work?

        I notice that people have contributed a lot, and yet, the translation are not available.

        e.g. At https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/bbpress/plugin there are plenty of items listed as “Waiting”. e.g. Polish, Romanian, French and Czech have 0% translation completed, but almost 100% strings in “waiting”.

        Similarly, at https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/buddypress/dev Danish, Romanian, and Czech have almost 0% translation completed, but almost 100% strings in “waiting”.

        This has been the status for many months (I am not exaggerating in the least). So how do we move strings from “waiting” to “translated”?

        • oc2ps 10:55 am on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Please add me as a validator for bbPress and BuddyPress

        • M. 11:03 am on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          That’s why I’ve resigned to contribute in translation program, because my validator for Polish isn’t accepting and checking translations for months…

          • OC2PS 11:15 am on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Sorry to hear that. Shouldn’t be this way. Perhaps we can have a community validation program instead of having to rely on individual validators who may be pressed for time…

            • M. 11:18 am on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              Maybe. But I have also mentioned this here and heard only that I should talk about this on community forums and with validator himself. But validator doesn’t want to cooperate, and there’s even no exact community to talk abot. So existing validator desn’t want to transfer his permissions to me (or someone other) and administrators of this site doesn’t want to nominate new one. And we are stuck! I have made a lot of translation last year and it’s still waiting for approval. I’m participating in many translation programs, but this one is the most dissapointing…

        • Stas Sușcov 12:19 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          While you might have some points here, I believe you are wrong (at least in the case of Romanian team).
          What you might be looking at are projects that were created from older po files and left this way right after the import. It doesn’t mean that there are people doing it at all!

          Usually those translations can’t be validated without an in detail review. And usually that happens because the translation team simply has no enough time to do that.

          In future, please do not make a general thing about something like this. Reading this I felt like people that should do validations, are ignoring contributions, which is not. It’s more a problem of time and priorities (what and when should be ready, rather than, all and anytime should be ready).

          • M. 12:26 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            And what if Polish team is me and validator who desn’t have time for half a year now?

            • de ce? 3:49 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              You can always ask for validator rights 🙂

              • M. 3:59 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                I was! But they Ze told me that we that thay have an Validator for Polish now and that I should contact with him. I’m in the black hole…

                • 4:31 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink

                  Ok, this needs a reply from @waclawjacek. Come to think of it, a reply has been pending for a while…

                • M. 4:32 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink


                • epawel 5:21 am on July 5, 2012 Permalink

                  any updates in this subject? I’m very intrested in translation of BuddyPress. I can see almost 900 terms waiting but nothing is availble. I need these translation in big international project if they will not be aprooved by validator I’ll be forced to translate everything from begining myself. Could you help please?

                • epawel 12:34 pm on July 5, 2012 Permalink

                  Is there any way to contact Validator for Polish – is it @waclawjacek ? Thanks in advance for any response

        • pavelevap 1:00 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Hi, I am one of Czech validators and main problem is quality of waiting translations. Zero rate of approval is mainly due to basic problems with terminology, respecting basic WP translations, etc. Many users add translation and do not see context of translated strings on live site. And then validator can test waiting projects, export current suggested translation, try it on live site and can see that it is better in English than with this translation for most of users. But every user can download and use current (also waiting) translation and use it on its own site. But usually these translations are not as good as going officially public.

          What should you do to become validator and improve it? Translate several strings and contact current validators. They will check quality of your suggested translations, you can talk about problems and then they can give you validator access. As I know, there is no ignorance for community work, but validators usually prefer quality and if suggested translations are not very good, there is usually not much time for them to make it better and go through large projects like bbPress and modify every suggested string. But we welcome every experienced user that will be interested in improving current status. But cooperation and community work is not “give me validator rights and I will approve it and make it better”. You should suggest many strings with high quality and then contact current validator team to show them your good work. I am sure that there will be very positive response…

          Yes, this situation is not the best solution, but I am not sure if there is any better. It is similar to WP core development. There are many ideas and many more patches, but only the best can go in.

          • pabenes 8:24 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Hi, thanks for posting this – this helped me to understand translating much better. But I don’t know how to download those waiting strings – I would like to test bbpress Czech translation on my site, but I didn’t manage to download waiting translations. Thanks in advance for your reply and thanks for your work.

            • 8:39 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              You can download strings (filtered whichever way you like) by using the links at the botton of each screen:

              Don’t forget to download both formats, .po and .mo

              • OC2PS 8:44 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                Are you sure? I think only “translated” parts are downloaded, not the “waiting” strings.

                • 8:46 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  “Waiting” is not a concept in .po files, so no, those aren’t downloaded specifically.

                • 9:12 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Correction, exporting “waiting” strings, will give you a .po with translations.

                • OC2PS 8:48 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  My bad! Actually, what I should have said was, with the Export all, only “translated are downloaded”. But if you set the filter/search to “waiting approval” and then export dropdown to “matching filter”, then you can download the “waiting” strings only…but for pabenes’s purpose, he wants to get a combination of approved, and “waiting”…

                • pabenes 8:50 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Yes, that’s how i managed to download those waitings – luckily in this case, there are just nonaproved 🙂

        • de ce? 3:55 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          About the Romanian projets:
          We are behind with a couple of launches, so the main project (multisite is still incomplete) has the highest priority. The side projects will always have a lower priority. An I second what Stas said above: buddypress and bbpress translations need a detailed review, but we’re working on it.

        • M. 4:00 pm on April 22, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          I have submitted Polish translations to mobile apps, dashboard, buddy press, etc… and they’re still waiting, and waiting… and wordpress looks worse and worse in Polish…

        • OC2PS 7:05 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          @pavelelap, @de ce
          I understand there is always the issue of time, resources and priorities, and that’s why I suggested a community-validation scheme, as opposed to waiting for individual validators. Don’t take it personally – it’s nothing against you…all I am saying that validators are also humans and have competing demands on their time. So instead of making one validator slog, how about simply allowing the community to vote on different translations. If you have just one translation available for the string, then once it hits a certain number of votes, it is moved to translated. If there are multiple translations, then the string with the most vote wins – or maybe in case of multiple translations, where the votes are fairly evenly split, the validators are called into action. This would greatly reduce the workload of validators, increase the speed, and efficiency of translation deployments without losing much by way of quality. Sure, there might be times where you might see vote spam and bad quality translations getting in…but as Matt (Mullenweg) himself says, usage is like oxygen for ideas…if the bad translations go out, the WP user community is large enough that these will be quickly caught and stamped out, a bit like in the case of Wikipedia…

          • M. 7:09 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            What about this great tool: http://crowdin.net/ ?

            • 9:05 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              Seriously? Not GPL, proprietary license, can’t contribute to the code…

              • M. 9:20 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                but they have free acces for open source projects

                • 9:27 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Keep in mind that translate.wordpress.org is not mandatory for translating, just for building, releasing and distributing packages. If you want to use Crowdin, knock yourself out, as long as it’s clear that your “endpoint” before building needs to be translate.wordpress.org.

              • OC2PS 9:23 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                It’s not necessary to use the tool itself. Perhaps GlotPress could adopt some of the principles. e.g. using translations across projects.

                So if WP, BP, bbP, Rossetta all have “Add New”, then when translating/validating BP in Hungarian, I have the option of using the same translation as WP if I want to. That’s brilliant!

                • Andrew Nacin 5:13 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Your example highlights exactly the main problem with regards to shared translations. What does “Add New” mean? In core, we use gettext contexts, so “Add New” with regards to a post, or a media item, or a link, or a plugin, are all different strings.

                  But for a plugin for Fruits, the context of “Add New” is pretty clear — add a new fruit. No gettext context is necessary. But if we reach into shared memory and find “Add New” from some other project and it isn’t the right tense/agreement/whatever for the Fruits plugin, then we have failed.

                  That’s not to say we shouldn’t do this, or that we’re not going to do this. I have been doing some research into translation memory implementations to see how feasible it is. But even then, strings would still be “fuzzy” or “suggested” by default. We would not make them all “current”.

                • OC2PS 5:43 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  I agree. Translation is always complex.

                  I think that ideally for a translator, the context shown should be not the gettext context but the live context, i.e. a snippet of the page where the string appears, with the string itself highlighted. Sounds like a massive project and probably not feasible.

                  What I said above is basically comparison of English text stored in the string. If there is identical English text across projects then in one project of that is translated and in the other it is untranslated and a translator goes to that string to translate, then he is served “suggestions” which *might* save him some time and effort.

                • OC2PS 5:47 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  P.S. In the spirit of “not here”: https://glotpress.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/194

          • OC2PS 8:50 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Also, another option: let any translations for untranslated strings be approved by default. Validators only come into play when people find a string is wrong and submit alternate translations.

            • M. 8:54 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              That’s the way it works in other systems (WebTranslateIt, Pootle)

              • OC2PS 9:06 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                Not to mention Wikipedia 😉

                • 9:07 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Do we really want to have a “discussion” page for every single string?

                • OC2PS 9:11 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  😀 Maybe not. But a comment string to provide context would be nice.

                  But back to your point a bit more seriously, no we don’t have to have a discussion page for every single string. But it would be good to have a discussion area on .org sites where any contentious items can be discussed on a message board.

                • OC2PS 9:11 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  …if need be

                • Stas Sușcov 9:36 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Creating a mailing list seems more natural and I encourage you to consider that as an option instead of forcing people use new tools.

                • 9:37 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  We have a pt_PT specific P2 for discussing translations, with a glossary page. It works quite well.

            • 9:04 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              I strongly (and subjectively, ok) disagree with this. It might be doable for less popular projects, but there are just too many people eager to “fix” things and bork a consistent translation. Revising 1000s of strings every time is simply not feasible. Maybe an option per language, although I can guarantee that for pt_PT, the behaviour will always be “waiting” by default.

              • OC2PS 9:09 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                I understand your reluctance. But if you parse my words again, here’s what I said: If there is an untranslated string, then the first translation provided for it is approved automatically. However, if people find that a string is wrong, and 1000s of people decide to submit fixes, well, that’s when the validators come into play. That’s when the validators check and compare and allow or refuse. This way you get stuff out of the gate quickly, and even if 1000s of people submit their own versions for a string that’s already ok, it doesn’t matter because an ok string is already out there, and validators can have a look or ignore those “fixes” based on their own time commitments and priorities.

                • 9:11 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  I did, but you need to walk on the validator’s shoes for a bit; you are considering a universe of a few untranslated strings, say a few hundred. This process for a few thousand is a nightmare.

                • OC2PS 9:20 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  No, I’m not. In fact, it is worse for everybody right now, including for validators. At the moment, validators have to go and individually approve every single string that is submitted. What a nightmare for the validator, what a demoralizing wait for translators, and of course a disappointing disfunction for polyglot users of the software.

                  In a scheme where all “new” strings submitted are automatically approved, validators become an “optout” or positive filter, as opposed to an “optin” or negative filter.

                  Now let’s say 1000s of folks submit 1000s of “fixes” for each of the 1000s of strings. How is that different from today? How will it increase work for moderators? If anything, it would reduce work for them because they have to look a fewer (probably contentious) strings. Maybe it won’t change their workload if there are discussions around these strings and that extra work would balance out the gains from fewer strings…I don’t know…maybe you can scrap the discussions…or maybe try it and scrap it if it doesn’t work….

                  But now look at it from the perspective of the translators and users. The first translator, who puts in the work and effort to translate the software is rewarded as his translations are deployed and he can immediately use the software in his/her language.

                  From the perspective of the users, they get multiple languages for the software much faster, making them happier.

                  From the project perspective, it can increase the usage of the software in non-English and multilingual regions.

                • 9:31 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Maybe. I’m still not convinced, but the obvious way to settle this is to create a ticket and ask other validators for feedback/opinion. I don’t get to decide by myself.

                • OC2PS 10:05 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                • de ce? 12:00 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  I can’t agree. Basically, instead of looking into the waiting list, as a validator in a system like this I will be also looking into the translated strings, just to make sure everithing is in good shape and consistent.

                • OC2PS 12:04 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  That’s a fatal flaw in your thinking. You are looking at it as your sole responsibility to make sure everything is correct. However, in the suggested model, the responsibility is dispersed. You don’t have to look at anything to make sure its correct. When people receive the translations, they will know if it’s correct or not, and if it’s not then they will submit alternatives…so you will only need to look at the alternatives….in other words, you won’t have to worry about and waste time on going through the 80% translations that are correct. You will only have to look at the wrong ones, for which alternatives have already been submitted.

                • 1:04 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Please moderate you words. There is no ‘flaw’ that I can see, just different opinions. That said, this discussion should be happening on the ticket, anyway.

                • 1:08 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Also on http://blog.glotpress.org, but certainly not here

                • OC2PS 1:18 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  @de ce?

                  If that was offensive, I offer an unqualified apology.

              • M. 9:12 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                Ze, this english-polish mix rather is not looking good…

            • pavelevap 11:13 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              I also disagree. Distributing wrong translation is nightmare. Personaly, I hate wrong translation because I usually do not understand it. I do not know what plugin settings really mean because translated strings do not make sense. I tested several translations of different plugins and usually it is a mess. Sorry. I use localized version of WordPress and after every update I have to delete localization files distributed with one plugin (large project) because there are wrong words on backend and also frontend thanks to wrong translation. So, in many cases, no translation is much more better solution.

              But on the other side there could be some kind of option for validators to allow distributing also waiting translations to users. I disagree with marking them as translated in GlotPress – it would be a real mess for validators. But we can let these strings as waiting and validators could mark specific project to distribute also waiting strings (or do it automatically for projects where there are more than 80 % waiting strings). And we will see… What do you think about it?

              • OC2PS 12:06 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                I think it should be at the discretion of the project owners, not at the discretion of individual language validators.

                • pavelevap 3:02 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Yes, project owners also could make this choice, but they do not know anything about quality of waiting translation.

                • OC2PS 3:04 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Doesn’t matter. It’s a strategic decision about how they want translation to work for their project, and whether they are willing to sacrifice a degree of potential quality to gain an increase in speed to market.

            • Mattias Tengblad 1:53 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

              I agree with Zé and pavelevap here. Would be a nightmare where things already works.

              • OC2PS 1:55 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                “Things already work” is quite debatable, looking at OP and the comments of M. and UncleSam

                • 3:08 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Possibly debatable, but not here. Please use the ticket or the GlotPress blog.

                • Mattias Tengblad 3:24 pm on April 23, 2012 Permalink

                  Please read what I wrote once more.

        • OC2PS 7:07 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          P.S. I missed @Stas Suscov in previous message, though I intended to address him as well.

        • UncleSam 8:49 am on April 23, 2012 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Same thing with the Russian translation. I took part in translating, did it to the end, checking the context each time. None of mine and others are approved.

          Still, I am ready to use what is done already, though I don’t see a clear-cut instruction how to do it

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