WordPress.org

Translate WordPress

Tagged: google translate Toggle Comment Threads | Keyboard Shortcuts

  • Birgit Olzem 5:25 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: google translate, , translation tools   

    Discussion: Using translation tools with GlotPress?

    In our weekly chat meeting today, we´ve discussed over a feature request, to implement Google Translator into GlotPress. A feature, that was build in in the past, but was removed after another discussion. (s. here) Sidenote: Some very ambitious validators were misusing it to get their language at 100% and it resulted in very poor translations  Since API keys are needed and if those aren’t passed it will not be displayed and not  because of misusing it.

     

    Upcoming concerns from chat

    • Is it useful, to let the locale editor decide, if translation tools are in use
    • it would maybe useful to get a first raw translations for new locale, but for using it needs proofreading
    • a validator for a locale should be a good native speaker, so doesn´t need a Google Translator
    • If a validator decides to misuse the tool, there’s a very little chance anyone will be able to notice unless a user speaks up.
    • Keep in mind that the Google Translate API is a paid service
    • Maybe part of solution, or just making easier for translators is to list on local site links to online tools for translating and checking spell

    Let´s discuss

    • What are your best practices as translator / validator?
    • Do you use any translation tools for raw translations?

     

     
    • Ze Fontainhas 6:41 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      As far as standard Portuguese is concerned, the quality of Google Translate’s suggestions is at the same level it was back in 2011, that is to say completely unusable, bordering the ridiculous. For us, the reasoning hasn’t changed, either, from 2011: it is basically a nuisance, and extra work for validators. If the majority does decide to implement it in GP, at least make it an admin-switchable option, per project or per locale.

    • Stephen Edgar 8:48 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      One of the things I noticed, maybe interpreted is a more appropriate term is that some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

      Using a translation tool such as offered by Bing or Google helps them understand that original string to which they are then able to edit the translation offered to their native language which they are indeed fluent in.

      So to that point of “a validator should be a good native speaker”, in a generalized view here we are actually asking validators to have a reasonable understanding of English and be a good native speaker of the locale they are translating for.

      For locales with a small team, or single translator and validator who are in this situation we should be able to do “something” to help them out, maybe integrating a translation API, maybe not, but we should be able to recommend “something” to help guide these locales and help them maintain their locale whilst they translate and recruit new contributors for their locale.

      p.s. I agree with what Ze said above, I am in no way here suggesting or recommending the translation of the English string should ever be sourced from a translator or translation API. 😊

      • Ze Fontainhas 9:24 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Yes, but

        some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

        The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language, but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

        That said, I do agree 100% with helping guide translators, just not through some funky, unpredictable and often puzzling API.

        • Stephen Edgar 11:06 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language…

          …. looks up definition of adroit, for a native speaker of English I <3 Ze's writing and prose, we're all always learning new things in #Polyglots :)

          …but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

          Yes +1

    • Catiakitahara 9:35 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I think the “validator should be a good native speaker” is quite ambiguous in this context, I guess what @coachbirgit meant was that a validator should be fluent in both languages, English and the one he’s translanting WP into.
      @vanillalounge the suggestion was to leave Google translations as an option per locale. I don’t like it too, but I can see it may be usefull for new locales starting from zero and with only one validator. It was considered because the code is already there and it’s very easy to bring it back while we find better ways to help small teams. But to tell you the truth, Google translate has improved a lot since we have the ability to improve their translations. It isn’t good for whole sentences, but it’s very helpfull in the case of labels.

      • Ze Fontainhas 9:42 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Fair enough, but I insist we do not leave the issue of properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code fall through the cracks. In my mind at least, it takes clear priority.

        • Stefano Aglietti 9:47 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Having GT as an option you can chise to show or not is something easy and with really few works. I strongly agree with you to have developers improve the contextualization and comments whne the write I18N code. The recent bad expirience with the iOS app where comments where simply unusefull should teach us something.

        • Catiakitahara 11:39 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          I agree!

    • Stefano Aglietti 9:44 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I’m with Ze about the need to have proper contexualized comments in the source code. In some cases translation tools ad GT help about some words, some sentence that sound strnage, but in lot of cases the translation is really poor. Need a lot of revision cause lot on transaltion have a sentece format in english style than in locale style. For example the “Please, …” in italian we never translate it, capitalization in sentences are lot different but google keep them ecc ecc. Letting locales validator choise with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise. Google translator can be improved, but you need to submit alternative translation to it and I’m not sure the API allow this. I agree with Catiaketahara that google sometimes helps fon single labels words etc. not for full sentence. . I’m for optionally have it on request by the validators for theyr locales.

    • Stefano Aglietti 9:59 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I know is just not fully related to translation tools, but in some way are internal tools or better internal improvement of glotpress a couple of thing i just mentioned in the chat today cause i joined really late and meeting was ending.

      An helpful tools that great integrate with glossary (i think we should discuss in the future about glossary works and how should be improved) is to have one or more editable pages by single locales in glotpress where we can define style guides to translations that are stuff that can be accommodated into the glossary. I refer to how sentences should be translated persona or impersonal, how capitalization of words and sentences have to done (ex month or day of the week in italian are ALWAYS in lowercase) etc.

      Another helpful “tools” should be short messages that we can make appear in every project even in index pages like https://translate.wordpress.org/languages/it to inform contributor about how things are going, for example whith the problem we had on glotpress on 4.0.1 release alert people that come to check if they can help, that untralsated string or just typos correction should be postponed cause there is a problem, or that a new group or project should soon change so better not spend time for nothing and other message like that. I suppose it’s something that can be easily don but should help a lot. We of it_IT fell a lot the need to have a place for translation guidelines fully integrated in glotpress cause more than 50% of invalidated suggestion from translator are about thing that need to be correct bu hand and are all related to this stuff. As I’m really waiting to have a motivation reject way to inform people why theirs translation were rejected.

    • Xavier Borderie 1:20 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I only use Google Translate to get variations for a single word to be translated. I hardly ever use it for full sentences, and even so have to proofread, rewriting and move around that translation before it feels natural.

    • Kirtan Gajjar 1:46 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Actually, i was the one who raised this request in technical chat.

      Let me explain why. First have a look at –

      https://slack-files.com/T024MFP4J-F032QEVD2-cc3d9c

      I am new to this community and i am the lone translator of my language gujarati. Particularly for my locale, i find google translate very much helpful. My case is same as what @catiakitahara mentioned. My locale is almost starting from zero and currently, i am the only translator(and there’s no validator, i hope i will be some day :)). As described in the document attached above, i find it very useful in my workflow. I use it often. It is mostly correct for single words, and full sentence just needs a bit of rearrangement and proofreading.

      However notwithstanding chat we had yesterday, i’ve also considered the point that its really pain for validators to correct poorly translated strings. In my mind i have two solutions –

      1. Easy to implement and recommended

      As @steveagl mentioned

      “Letting locales validator choice with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise”.

      Let the validator decide to weather or not to put a link of google translator for his locale.

      2. May be hard to implement, but offers great flexibility.

      This includes 1st feature + an additional feature

      If any validator who has activated GT link, and finds out that a particular person is misusing GT way too much, then the validator can ban the user from using GT.

  • pcgaldo 11:46 pm on January 13, 2013 Permalink |
    pcgaldo • gl.wordpress.org validator
    Tags: , , google translate,   

    Hi,

    We have a little problem: automatic traslation is not working in GlotPress for galician language, although our language is supported in the Google tool.

    Error in translating via Google Translate: undefined!

    Can you solve this problem, please?

     
  • Safareli 2:59 pm on October 15, 2012 Permalink |
    safareli
    Tags: , google translate, ,   

    i am translating twenty eleven 3.4.x to Georgian language and in some cases when i edit some fields i can’t correct them :( why ?
    and altho Translation from Google doesn’t work

     
  • jenialaszlo 8:10 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink |
    jenialaszlo
    Tags: google translate,   

    Do the translations approved and stored in GlotPress feed back into http://translate.google.com/? Does Google’s machine translation engine learn from the translations entered by WordPress community volunteers (thus potentially making better suggestions for us in the future)?

     
    • 8:49 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      They aren’t and as far as I can tell, Google’s API has no method for doing that. It would be nice, though.

      • Jenia 9:30 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Thank you! I searched around and found some further information:

        From http://translate.google.com/about/: “If you notice that one of our translations could be better, click the “Contribute a better translation” link on the results page to suggest improvements. You can also help improve translation quality by using Translator Toolkit for translating or by uploading your translation memories into Translator Toolkit. ”

        And then from http://translate.google.com/toolkit/TOS.html: “By submitting or creating your content through the Service, you grant Google permission to use your content to improve or make available the Services pursuant to these additional terms….”

        But then Google Translator Toolkit only takes files in .tmx format, and I believe that while there is a way to convert .po into .tmx, it’s not so trivial… Another option is to suggest better translations manually on the Google Translate page which is not feasible, of course.

        Why not consider WordPress sites as important translation repositories, alongside with UN sites? That’s what Gogle Translate really ought to think about.

        • 9:51 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Found this, later:
          http://code.google.com/intl/en/apis/gtt/docs/1.0/developers_guide_protocol.html#UploadingTms but it seems to indicate that albeit we’d be contributing translation memories to a “public pool”, said pool would only be “public” in the sense that it can be read by any other user through the API, not the world at large (i.e. the main Google Translate website/API). I’ll dig some more.

          Also, UN?!?

          • Jenia 9:57 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Ah! Good point on distinction between the Google Translator Toolkit and Google Translate API.

            (The UN reference is because I’ve just watched the intro video – it said that the engine is trained on translations from “UN and other important websites”.)

            • 10:00 pm on April 12, 2011 Permalink

              Agreed. It should read “WordPress and other important websites” 😀

c
compose new post
j
next post/next comment
k
previous post/previous comment
r
reply
e
edit
o
show/hide comments
t
go to top
l
go to login
h
show/hide help
shift + esc
cancel