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  • Birgit Olzem 9:20 am on July 6, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

      CoachBirgitde_DE editor  

      Agenda for the Polyglots chat on July 6th 

      Dear Polyglots,

      Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

      See you there!

       
    • Birgit Olzem 8:33 am on June 29, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

        CoachBirgitde_DE editor
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        Agenda for the Polyglots chat on June 29th 

        Dear Polyglots,

        Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

        • Locale stats
          • Releases
          • Translations
          • Pinging GTEs of unreleased locales for latest versions
        • Technical updates
        • Résumé of WordCamp Europe and the Contributor Day
          • Please share your achievements for yourself and your locale
        • Open discussion

        See you there!

         
      • Birgit Olzem 7:00 am on June 28, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

          CoachBirgitde_DE editor
          Tags: , , WordCamp Europe   

          Contributor Day WCEU 2016  

          The WordCamp Europe was a blast. After two days with great talks, chats and a remarkable party called WCEUball we attended to the Contributor Day on Sunday. We’d love to share our achievements with you and for the records.

          In the Polyglots meetings of May 11th and May 18th, 2016 the preparations for the WCEU contributor day were on the table. We agreed that we’d identify a couple of goals for the Polyglots team at WordCamp Europe.

          So far, 20% of the attendees have “signed up” to help the Polyglots team at WordCamp Europe 2016.
          The contributor day organization confirmed these team leads for the Polyglots team:

          Additionally, Bego (@pixolin), Francesca (@francina), Raffaella (@zetaraffix), Sergey (@sergey), Luis (@luisrull), Peter (@savione) were there to answer questions and helping to onboard on translations.

          Preparation of our goals

          To be able to prepare for the contributor day well, we’ll define a couple of goals for the day. They’ll be listed here and explained below.

          • Onboard new translators
          • Translate
          • Find (new) Translation Editors for locales that need them
          • FAQ page in the Polyglots handbook
          • Global translation day videos in the Polyglots handbook

          Onboard new translators

          Lead: Naoko Takano
          Assistants: Bego Mario Garde, Denise VanDeCruze

          Given the size of the WordCamp Europe 2016 contributor day, it’s highly likely that we’ll have new translators in our team. Our goal is to show them the basics, get them started as a translator, and make sure they leave the day proud of their achievements.

          Conditionally the great venue for the Contributor day we had two rooms for the Polyglots team provided.
          In one room we could onboard new translators with the help of live presentation via beamer. Bego did a great job and used our prepared slides from the Global WordPress Translation Day to demonstrate how translations and related tasks like approval process, Glossary, and Translation Style Guide are defined and where to find. Nao held a workshop after lunch and talked about translation tips and how to get involved.

          While new polyglots got onboarded, the more experienced contributors worked on the translations in their own locale.

          Translations in numbers

          Over 6495 strings in total were translated, 4587 of those got approved, 1720 had the status “waiting”. Only 17 Strings were rejected which is tremendous in terms of the quality.

          We had 71 signups for the translations team on the Contributor Day and the counts above got done by 142 users in total because of many remote working polyglots during the day.

          (Thanks for the stats, @ocean90 !)

          It’s absolutely awesome! Thank you all very much for that! You rock the game!

          Find (new) Translation Editors for locales that need them

          We tried to get some more numbers. Following numbers about participants broken down by locale are doubtless incomplete, but they show what we achieved.

          Counted participants via announcement on Slack to @CoachBirgit:

          • Finnish (fi): 5
          • Turkish (tr_TR): 1
          • German (de_DE): 7 (+ 4 new translators and 1 PTE gained)
          • Japanese (ja): 1 (+ 2 new translators)
          • Italian (it_IT):5
          • Spanish (es-ES): 3
          • Hungarian (hu_HU): 1
          • Romanian (ro_RO): 1
          • Polish (pl_PL): 1
          • Malayalam (ml_IN): 1
          • Dutch (nl_NL): 2 (+1 new translator)
          • Danish (da_DK): 1
          • Russian (ru_RU): 1
          • Basque (eu): 1
          • Montenegrin (me_ME): 1
          • Dutch (Belgium) (nl_BE): 1
          • French (fr_FR): 1 new translator

          We would like to complete this list. Please share your personal achievement at Contributor Day in the comment of this post. And one more request to the existing GTEs – please share your counts, how many new TE or PTE your locale gained on the Contributor day.

          FAQ page in the Polyglots handbook

          By virtue of the great preparatory work from @casiepa the FAQ draft is now as page transferred to the Polyglots handbooks. So there was no pressure to do this on the contributor day.

          Global translation day videos in the Polyglots handbook

          During the Global Translation Day, we recorded a fair number (24) videos about helping the polyglots. The more general videos can be included in the handbook, the specific ones on the rosetta sites. We’ll need some people to coordinate and do this. Unfortunately the task leader @francina couldn’t work on this on the Contributor Day. So she created a task list to add the recorded material to the related handbook pages.

          Open discussion / round table

          The Polyglots mentor team had some topics on the list to discuss.

          1. The Persian situation
          2. Cross PTE trial

          Results of this discussion

          1. The requests from Farhad Sakhaei to become one of the GTE for fa_IR are on the review list from Samuel Sidler. He will mediate between the counterparties. We would appreciate if every discussion on Slack about this topic now stops until the situation is not cleared via escalation process.
          2. We will do a trial for the Cross PTE request. Details will follow in a separate post in the near future when the benchmark data is figured out.

          UX Design for GlotPress

          Some polyglots participated in the discussions for the UX Design for our beloved (sometimes annoying) translation platform and WordPress plugin GlotPress, which was lead by @akirk and @isaackeyet. The GlotPress team did a lot of brainstorming. The results will be posted as soon as possible on blog.glotpress.org.

          Words of gratitude

          Dear friends, you all did a great job. Please stay tuned with your contributions. An open source project like WordPress needs a lot of love from passionate people like you are.

          I thank you so much, I can´t find the right words how impressed I am about our beloved community especially the polyglots!

          And I want to thank every single organizer and volunteer that made WCEU an unforgettable event, so THANK YOU!

          See you soon – at latest on WordCamp Europe 2017 in Paris!

           
        • Birgit Olzem 7:18 am on June 22, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

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            Agenda for the Polyglots chat on June 22nd 

            Dear Polyglots,

            Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

            See you there!

            P.S. Wishing everyone who is traveling to WordCamp Europe a safe trip.

             
          • Birgit Olzem 10:02 am on June 15, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

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              Agenda for the Polyglots chat on June 15th 

              Dear Polyglots,

              Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

              See you there!

               
            • Birgit Olzem 7:33 am on May 18, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

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                Agenda for the Polyglots chat on May, 18th 

                Dear Polyglots,

                Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

                • Locale stats after the 4.5.2 maintenance release
                  • Taking care of 100% translated locales that haven’t released
                  • Pinging GTEs of locales that are at 95%+ for manual release
                • Technical update (GlotPress releases and changes, WordPress releases)
                • Handbook FAQ page status
                • Brainstorm about credits for translation contributors on plugins/themes directory
                • Shiny updates review (@obenland https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/2016/05/16/shiny-updates-review/)
                • WordCamp Europe contributor day – task list / focus list
                • Open discussion

                See you there!

                 
              • Birgit Olzem 7:47 am on May 11, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                  CoachBirgitde_DE editor
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                  Agenda for the Polyglots chat on May, 11th 

                  Dear Polyglots,

                  Here’s the agenda for the chat today, see you on Slack!

                  • Locale stats after the 4.5.2 maintenance release
                    • Taking care of 100% translated locales that haven’t released
                    • Pinging GTEs of locales that are at 95%+ for manual release
                  • Technical update (GlotPress releases and changes, WordPress releases)
                  • Handbook FAQ page status
                  • WordCamp Europe contributor day
                    • We will have an unprecedented number of contributors and many polyglots – let’s make a plan for onboarding them
                    • We will have a lot of seasoned contributors – let’s decide what we want to discuss / work on
                  • Open discussion

                  See you there!

                   

                   
                • Birgit Olzem 1:35 pm on January 27, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                    CoachBirgitde_DE editor
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                    Notes from the Polyglots chat on Jan 27th 

                    Locale stats

                    Releases: 158 locales. 56 locales up to date. 2 locales behind by minor versions. (#lv, #te)  11 locales behind by one major version.(#vi, #tl, #es_VE#sl_SI, #gd, #fa_IR, #ka_GE,#cs_CZ, #bs_BA, #bn_BD,#hy19 locales behind more than one major version. 55 locales have a site but never released. 15 locales don᾿t have a site.

                    Translations: 158 locales. 56 locales at 100%. 3 locales have more than 95%. 4 locales have more than 90%. 27 locales have more than 50%. 55 locales have less than 50%.

                    5 locale requests waiting.

                    ToDo:

                    • Taco will post a comment and @mention the GTEs of the behind locales below these notes

                    Tech updates

                    no updates for today.

                    Let’s talk communication

                    – how to address plugin author and translation contributor requests on the P2

                    Suggested places to improve information about translating your plugin:

                    Please include other links to pages in the ecosystem where adding information regarding plugin translations would be good. Improving documentation will help (see last week’s steps) but we should also try and be a bit more patient with demanding plugin authors.

                    Suggestions for the requests:

                    One page, one form, the necessary info in short, linked to the full handbook posts, one simple URL to refer people to (by @eyesx

                    About Expectations

                    As @tacoverdo mentioned, the problem is expectation management. We obviously fail in setting the right expectations. @casiepa added that we are all human and volunteers, but indeed, expectations and ‘responsibilities’ need to be clearer.

                    @chantalc created a Doc, with the first draft about Polyglots expectations. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ON4DCjQP-le2GCeMgov2aO7exCljWZILHmKX0aTfcvg/edit#

                    ToDo

                    • Create standard responses for plugin/theme authors demanding you translate their projects
                    • Create a workflow diagram for the request process
                    • Expand the handbook section ‘How to become a translation editor‘ to explain how and when translation contributors should contact GTEs, and how GTEs should handle PTE requests.

                    Translation sprints

                    – the poll is already open (until January 31st) – let’s send it to our communities

                    ToDo

                    Open discussion

                    No special topic to discuss today. If you have further questions, please feel free to leave a comment below.

                    Next meeting will be on Wednesday, February 3d, at 11 am UTC in the #Polyglots channel on Slack.

                    See you there!

                     
                  • Birgit Olzem 10:25 am on January 27, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                      CoachBirgitde_DE editor  

                      Agenda for the Polyglots chat on January 27th 

                      Hey everyone,

                      Here’s a short agenda for the chat this week. Add anything you’d like to discuss in the comments below

                      • Locale stats
                      • Tech update
                      • Let’s talk communication – how to address plugin author and translation contributor requests on the P2
                      • Translation sprints – the poll is open until 31st – let’s send it to our communities
                      • Open discussion

                      See you on Slack!

                       
                    • Birgit Olzem 10:14 am on January 6, 2016 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                        CoachBirgitde_DE editor
                        Tags:   

                        Agenda for the Polyglots chat on Jan 6th 

                        Hey everyone & happy new year!!

                        Are you good started into the new year?

                        Here’s the agenda for the Polyglots chat today, 11 am UTC:

                        • Locale stats
                        • Tech update and release help
                        • Goals for 2016 – let’s line them up and figure out how to reach them
                        • Contributor survey for 2015 – http://wordpressdotorg.polldaddy.com/s/2015-wordpress-contributor-survey
                        • Open discussion
                          • Legal consequences while translating
                            • What if a translation contributor finds some legal critical phrases in a theme or plugin?
                            • Who is legally responsible for statements and texts in themes and plugins that are legally dubious? – developer, translation editor or translation contributor?

                        If you’d like to add anything to the agenda, please comment below or show up for the open discussion at the end of the chat.

                        I’ll see you all in Slack!

                        Cheers,

                        Birgit

                         
                      • Birgit Olzem 12:47 pm on December 21, 2015 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                          CoachBirgitde_DE editor
                          Tags:   

                          Off for holidays 

                          wpmas

                          Wapmas

                          Hello everyone,

                          As most of you know, holidays are coming. Time to be thankful and to reflect on ourselves. It’s also time to take a break.

                          The next weekly Polyglots chat will be on Jan, 6th.

                          Please allow for a bit more time for requests on both the Polyglots P2 and on Slack, as there will be fewer of us around before the New Year.

                          Thank you!

                          We would like to say THANK YOU to everyone, who has contributed to the WordPress project and we wish you and your family a peaceful time and a good start of the new year.

                          See you in 2016!

                          Kind regards,
                          Birgit

                          Image Credits: Gemma Garner & Scott Evans

                           
                        • Birgit Olzem 11:00 am on December 3, 2014 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                            CoachBirgitde_DE editor
                            Tags: , week,   

                            Agenda for the Polyglots chat at Dec 3/4 

                            Agenda for the Polyglots chats Dec 3/4

                            Hello dear polyglots,

                            Almost time for the scheduled Wednesday and Thursday Polyglots chats. Here’s the proposed agenda:

                            What happened last week

                            We are waiting for the string freeze and the translation project for the new theme Twenty Fifteen

                            Agenda

                            • get informed about the status to WordPress 4.1
                            • other discussions

                            For today, we have a short agenda.

                            Cheers

                             
                            • Kunar 12:29 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                              TRIGGER WARNING: Newbie questions

                              Is there an end date for the string freeze? When can we continue our work?

                            • Birgit Olzem 3:55 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                              Hello Kunar,

                              String Freeze means, that no new strings are coming into 4.1. We #polyglots have after string freeze estimated one week time to translate the last incoming strings like the about.php Page and in this case the new standard theme Twenty Fifteen.

                              You should do all, what you can to bring your language to 100% BEFORE Release.

                              Target release-Date for 4.1 and Twenty Fifteen is at the week of December, 8th 2014. See the 4.1 Project Schedule

                              • Kunar 5:43 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                Thanks for the reply! The overall Esperanto translation is at less than 2/3 now but with very different progress on the varying parts. Development is at nearly 100%, the three themes are translated. It’s the admin parts that require most work. I am rather pessimistic that this all will be done and tested until then. But considering that the whole translation slept for some releases, I consider it not a bad result.

                            • Stephen Edgar 3:56 am on December 4, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                          • Birgit Olzem 3:25 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                              CoachBirgitde_DE editor
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                              Notes from the Polyglots meetings Nov 26th & Nov 27th 

                              Notes from the Polyglots meetings Nov 26th & Nov 27th

                              Here you´ll find the notes from the last #polyglots weekly chat meeting

                              Agenda

                              Slack Chat Archive

                              Disussed topics

                              What happened last week?

                              We had some trouble with the 4.0.1 because of a series of bugs in GlotPress due some temporary changes in the database. It was fixed very fast, thanks to all, who was involved.

                              Info: Only the 4.x (dev) branch was affected. You don´t need to rerelease older versions/tags

                              Reminder: If your language is missing strings, please rebuild and rerelease. This will make sure the users who update from now on will get the proper translation files.

                              Current stats

                              • 37 locales up-to-date
                              • 18 locales behind by one minor version
                              • 4 locales behind by one major version
                              • 15 locales behind by two or more major versions.
                                • @markoheijnen will start displaying the percentage and changelog soon too and will flush stats values before every weekly meeting, to be up-to-date with correct data.
                              • Some locales that are up to date with incomplete packages (Admin’s not at 100%)
                              • Happiness: We have two brand new locales (Oriya and Lingala) and the Translators/Validators for Thai(@kazama), Tagalog (@krzheiyah) and Lao(@douantavanh) are now attended at our weekly meetings, this is great, because Asia was underrepresented in the past. Many thanks to @shinichin and @mayuko for knitting the connection

                              Recap technical lead chat meeting

                              We had a chat meeting for people, who wants to volunteer as a technical lead.

                              In the past, there were the people, who handled all technical stuff around #polyglots, overwhelmed with work. It is a volunteer work – everyone has a real life! So we don´t want to get people burnt out.

                              The stuff is now distributed on more shoulders. For the technical part we have a lot of people who stepped up to help: @japh, @ocean90, @miyauchi, @eathanasiadis, @sergeybiryukov, @netweb and @CoachBirgit

                              Many thanks for your attendance!

                              Next steps for the technical crew:

                              • hanging out on the P2 and on Slack more,
                              • technical list with all the responsibilities documented, @petya is working on that
                              • partnering up technical leads with community leads so they can work together in their region

                               Other Questions/Suggestions

                              • Importing translations into GlotPress is only recommended, if your locale is very new. Otherwise use only GlotPress for translations to avoid overwriting existing translations. Note: you need to check if the pot revision you used to translate it needs to match glotpress
                              • String freezeis proposed for the RC 1 at hopefully December, 1st 2014not later than Dec,3d coming week
                              • A lot of pain for #polyglots are the short time sequenzes, after string freeze and missing projects and branches on translate.wordpress.org
                              • The bbPress Theme is ready and commited – waiting for implementing to update the locale support forums from bbPress 1.x to 2.x
                              • The locale P2´s are planned – needs some changes for user roles, that will come with the new bbPress
                                • @netweb finished of the final parts of the 1.x importer on the weekend and now they are working on actual implementation of the where’s and how we’ll actually deploy etc
                              • Question came up, to implement Google Translator in GlotPress. This discussion will be continued on a separate post.

                              Next week’s Polyglots chats on Slack in the #Polyglots channel:

                              Dec 3d, Wednesdays at 11:00 UTC and Dec 4th, Thursdays at 2:00 UTC.

                              Sidenote: We wish our american friends great Thanksgiving holidays!

                               
                              • Mattias Tengblad 7:49 am on November 28, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                “Importing translations into GlotPress is only recommended, if your locale is very new. Otherwise use only GlotPress for translations to avoid overwriting existing translations. Note: you need to check if the pot revision you used to translate it needs to match glotpress”

                                Any other technical reasons for this suggestion (thinking of the recent problems)? As long as it takes forever to get new projects and updated strings it’s hard to take this in to consideration. For now it feels like using SVN is the way to go.

                                • pavelevap 2:28 pm on November 28, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  I agree, I am using Poedit and testing the whole localization on my localhost and in the end I only import translated strings (after checking suggested strings). GlotPress is sometimes slow, does not have translation memory and it is not possible to test it online in WordPress. The only advantage is collaboration, but due to lack of missing context for many strings, suggested strings by users are usually not very helpfull.

                                  • Marko Heijnen 12:24 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    But in your case, you ignore a lot of translators that want to help you out (a lot of waiting strings) and it seems in general you do it yourself. Also you still have a lot of fuzzy strings to look at.

                                    I agree GlotPress can be faster but not having translation memory is an excuse since this would only help when strings are changing. Also I’m currently working on a plugin that would allow you to test the strings directly.

                                    • pavelevap 3:20 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                      Yes, but these waiting strings are not usually correct, because of wrong context. Users try to translate some strings in GlotPress and do not know that some strings are for screen readers and others for buttons, some strings are verbs and others are nouns, etc. I try to check all waiting strings and not ignore suggestions. I also approve correct translations, you can see that our language has several users from GlotPress on Credits page. But before approving some string I want to see it in context in WordPress, because it can usually means anything. Fuzzy strings are only not completed translations from Poedit memory (I do not like that they are imported).

                                      Translation memory is nice feature also when translating new theme (2015), etc. Also when there is only small change in any string (one word), Poedit shows me previous translation (and GlotPress only shows new empty string). I was looking forward to Glossary, but in its current state it is useless (many per project Glossaries). Maybe there were some updates, I am not sure, I did not test this feature during last weeks.

                                      • Marko Heijnen 4:15 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink

                                        I would say that you should also decline translations. In the next month(s), we will have decline with feedback which should help you educate translators. But if strings are already approved then it doesn’t make sense to also have waiting translations for them.

                                        If I’m correct, the moment we add Twenty Fifteen we already include strings from previous themes. Glossary is a locale thing which is currently still per project but will soon also be for it sub projects. Unsure what your expectation are for it but would love to hear them.

                              • pavelevap 6:36 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                Sure, but some waiting strings are wrong and I did not have time to make better translation or correct and test them (so they are not rejected for now). And it is not possible to approve them, because users could be annoyed by mistakes. I would really appreciate feedback for rejected translations (and also for waiting strings to enable users to improve it), simply rejecting suggestions is bad for users.

                                There are some waiting and fuzzy strings, but our locale is almost complete and average user will not see any English strings in WordPress. Translation was tested on live site, proofreaded and it works very well, I guess.

                                I am not sure about Twenty Fifteen and even if automatically imported, they should be only fuzzy, because there were some minor changes (for example string from Twenty Fourteen was used in archive name and now it will be in screen reader text, etc). I will not be available during next release, so I am preparing translation now and GlotPress is not helpfull, even if only a week until release. So, I have to use Poedit and why waiting for GlotPress and use it later? Sorry, I also do not believe GlotPress, because there are strange things (for example one string less in admin) and nobody cares.

                                Glossary per project is useless, I guess. I will not copy and import terms into several projects, but I will simply use TM in Poedit. One Glossay for the whole WP core would be helpfull as some kind of help for users who want to help with localization. This base Glossary would be also fine for plugins and themes, where users would see that “Post” is usually translated as something, etc.

                                • Marko Heijnen 9:51 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  People do care but you can’t expect answers in a few days, also we have lives. Also the one string of is not to blame on GlotPress but most likely how we imported it. Reason why glossary is not final done is because a lot of use cases like the ones you named.

                                  Also translation should be done collaborative and if you don’t have the time, see if you can make someone else a validator. The same goes about how you use the glossary, only you know about it. And if you think glossary per project is useless, then you should have said so months ago. Most likely we would already have implemented a fix for it.

                                  • pavelevap 12:53 am on November 30, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    Yes, but this one missing string is only the last from many other problems with GlotPress (not to mention 4.0.1). I know that people have lives (me too) and I do not expect that it will be repaired immediatelly. It is only one example why I do not trust it.

                                    But problems with active projects only several days before release are very common (as Mattias noted above). Features are ready during beta period, but About page has to be committed only some days before release. Why? Twenty Fifteen is ready for several weeks, but strings are not in GlotPress yet. Why? I will not wait and I will use Poedit, sorry.

                                    I am looking for good validators, but I did not find yet. Not only for WordPress, but especially for other projects (there are many waitings strings). Some users wanted to try it, but after some weeks they become silent.

                                    As regards Glossary, I said so many months ago, for example here: https://glotpress.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/97#comment:66. Glossary per project is useless, because when something changes, I will have to edit many different glossaries. I am using tools which are good for my needs and save much time. I wrote 2 years ago that we need to test translated strings online, comments for rejected translations and glossary. Now we have only some kind of Glossary, which is limited per project.

                                    I am not motivated to use GlotPress which has its own problems. I understand that it is against collaboration, but there are not many usefull strings suggested, so it is not a big deal. But upcoming WP 4.1 will be maybe my last version as a validator, I am not sure yet. I hope I meet you in Prague next year, I was one of organizers of latest WordCamp 🙂

                                    • Marko Heijnen 11:22 pm on November 30, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                      haha, I can’t wait to meet you in Prague next year. I’m sure we will have some nice discussions. Also I hope I can convince you to stay with us (if needed) ;).

                                      After your comment for glossaries we did started writing code. A master glossary will probably not be possible for a while due to the fact that GlotPress doesn’t have global validators yet but I’m sure we will have inheritance soon.

                                      The only thing I want to correct here is the fact that translate.wordpress.org has it’s issues but not GlotPress only shortcomings 😉 Because I totally agree with you that Twenty Fifteen should already be here. Also the last releases I was also irritated that things got done to late.

                                      The problems with GlotPress as a tool will soon be over. Glossary will be more meaningful soon and also I’m currently working on decline with feedback. Unsure what you mean with “translated strings online” but if we see each other in Prague then I would love to hear how we can arrange that.

                            • Birgit Olzem 5:25 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                                CoachBirgitde_DE editor
                                Tags: , , translation tools   

                                Discussion: Using translation tools with GlotPress? 

                                Discussion: Using translation tools with GlotPress?

                                In our weekly chat meeting today, we´ve discussed over a feature request, to implement Google Translator into GlotPress. A feature, that was build in in the past, but was removed after another discussion. (s. here) Sidenote: Some very ambitious validators were misusing it to get their language at 100% and it resulted in very poor translations  Since API keys are needed and if those aren’t passed it will not be displayed and not  because of misusing it.

                                 

                                Upcoming concerns from chat

                                • Is it useful, to let the locale editor decide, if translation tools are in use
                                • it would maybe useful to get a first raw translations for new locale, but for using it needs proofreading
                                • a validator for a locale should be a good native speaker, so doesn´t need a Google Translator
                                • If a validator decides to misuse the tool, there’s a very little chance anyone will be able to notice unless a user speaks up.
                                • Keep in mind that the Google Translate API is a paid service
                                • Maybe part of solution, or just making easier for translators is to list on local site links to online tools for translating and checking spell

                                Let´s discuss

                                • What are your best practices as translator / validator?
                                • Do you use any translation tools for raw translations?

                                 

                                 
                                • Ze Fontainhas 6:41 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  As far as standard Portuguese is concerned, the quality of Google Translate’s suggestions is at the same level it was back in 2011, that is to say completely unusable, bordering the ridiculous. For us, the reasoning hasn’t changed, either, from 2011: it is basically a nuisance, and extra work for validators. If the majority does decide to implement it in GP, at least make it an admin-switchable option, per project or per locale.

                                • Stephen Edgar 8:48 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  One of the things I noticed, maybe interpreted is a more appropriate term is that some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

                                  Using a translation tool such as offered by Bing or Google helps them understand that original string to which they are then able to edit the translation offered to their native language which they are indeed fluent in.

                                  So to that point of “a validator should be a good native speaker”, in a generalized view here we are actually asking validators to have a reasonable understanding of English and be a good native speaker of the locale they are translating for.

                                  For locales with a small team, or single translator and validator who are in this situation we should be able to do “something” to help them out, maybe integrating a translation API, maybe not, but we should be able to recommend “something” to help guide these locales and help them maintain their locale whilst they translate and recruit new contributors for their locale.

                                  p.s. I agree with what Ze said above, I am in no way here suggesting or recommending the translation of the English string should ever be sourced from a translator or translation API. 😊

                                  • Ze Fontainhas 9:24 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    Yes, but

                                    some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

                                    The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language, but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

                                    That said, I do agree 100% with helping guide translators, just not through some funky, unpredictable and often puzzling API.

                                    • Stephen Edgar 11:06 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                      The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language…

                                      …. looks up definition of adroit, for a native speaker of English I <3 Ze's writing and prose, we're all always learning new things in #Polyglots 🙂

                                      …but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

                                      Yes +1

                                • Catiakitahara 9:35 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  I think the “validator should be a good native speaker” is quite ambiguous in this context, I guess what @coachbirgit meant was that a validator should be fluent in both languages, English and the one he’s translanting WP into.
                                  @vanillalounge the suggestion was to leave Google translations as an option per locale. I don’t like it too, but I can see it may be usefull for new locales starting from zero and with only one validator. It was considered because the code is already there and it’s very easy to bring it back while we find better ways to help small teams. But to tell you the truth, Google translate has improved a lot since we have the ability to improve their translations. It isn’t good for whole sentences, but it’s very helpfull in the case of labels.

                                  • Ze Fontainhas 9:42 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    Fair enough, but I insist we do not leave the issue of properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code fall through the cracks. In my mind at least, it takes clear priority.

                                    • Stefano Aglietti 9:47 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                      Having GT as an option you can chise to show or not is something easy and with really few works. I strongly agree with you to have developers improve the contextualization and comments whne the write I18N code. The recent bad expirience with the iOS app where comments where simply unusefull should teach us something.

                                    • Catiakitahara 11:39 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                      I agree!

                                • Stefano Aglietti 9:44 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  I’m with Ze about the need to have proper contexualized comments in the source code. In some cases translation tools ad GT help about some words, some sentence that sound strnage, but in lot of cases the translation is really poor. Need a lot of revision cause lot on transaltion have a sentece format in english style than in locale style. For example the “Please, …” in italian we never translate it, capitalization in sentences are lot different but google keep them ecc ecc. Letting locales validator choise with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise. Google translator can be improved, but you need to submit alternative translation to it and I’m not sure the API allow this. I agree with Catiaketahara that google sometimes helps fon single labels words etc. not for full sentence. . I’m for optionally have it on request by the validators for theyr locales.

                                • Stefano Aglietti 9:59 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  I know is just not fully related to translation tools, but in some way are internal tools or better internal improvement of glotpress a couple of thing i just mentioned in the chat today cause i joined really late and meeting was ending.

                                  An helpful tools that great integrate with glossary (i think we should discuss in the future about glossary works and how should be improved) is to have one or more editable pages by single locales in glotpress where we can define style guides to translations that are stuff that can be accommodated into the glossary. I refer to how sentences should be translated persona or impersonal, how capitalization of words and sentences have to done (ex month or day of the week in italian are ALWAYS in lowercase) etc.

                                  Another helpful “tools” should be short messages that we can make appear in every project even in index pages like https://translate.wordpress.org/languages/it to inform contributor about how things are going, for example whith the problem we had on glotpress on 4.0.1 release alert people that come to check if they can help, that untralsated string or just typos correction should be postponed cause there is a problem, or that a new group or project should soon change so better not spend time for nothing and other message like that. I suppose it’s something that can be easily don but should help a lot. We of it_IT fell a lot the need to have a place for translation guidelines fully integrated in glotpress cause more than 50% of invalidated suggestion from translator are about thing that need to be correct bu hand and are all related to this stuff. As I’m really waiting to have a motivation reject way to inform people why theirs translation were rejected.

                                • Xavier Borderie 1:20 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  I only use Google Translate to get variations for a single word to be translated. I hardly ever use it for full sentences, and even so have to proofread, rewriting and move around that translation before it feels natural.

                                • Kirtan Gajjar 1:46 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                  Actually, i was the one who raised this request in technical chat.

                                  Let me explain why. First have a look at –

                                  https://slack-files.com/T024MFP4J-F032QEVD2-cc3d9c

                                  I am new to this community and i am the lone translator of my language gujarati. Particularly for my locale, i find google translate very much helpful. My case is same as what @catiakitahara mentioned. My locale is almost starting from zero and currently, i am the only translator(and there’s no validator, i hope i will be some day :)). As described in the document attached above, i find it very useful in my workflow. I use it often. It is mostly correct for single words, and full sentence just needs a bit of rearrangement and proofreading.

                                  However notwithstanding chat we had yesterday, i’ve also considered the point that its really pain for validators to correct poorly translated strings. In my mind i have two solutions –

                                  1. Easy to implement and recommended

                                  As @steveagl mentioned

                                  “Letting locales validator choice with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise”.

                                  Let the validator decide to weather or not to put a link of google translator for his locale.

                                  2. May be hard to implement, but offers great flexibility.

                                  This includes 1st feature + an additional feature

                                  If any validator who has activated GT link, and finds out that a particular person is misusing GT way too much, then the validator can ban the user from using GT.

                              • Birgit Olzem 10:31 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | | Flag unresolved

                                  CoachBirgitde_DE editor
                                  Tags: , ,   

                                  Agenda for the Polyglots chats Nov 26/27 

                                  Agenda for the Polyglots chats Nov 26/27

                                  Hello dear polyglots,

                                  Almost time for the scheduled Wednesday and Thursday Polyglots chats. Here’s the proposed agenda:

                                  What happened last week and why

                                  There were a series of bugs in GlotPress due to some temporary changes in the database connection code on WordPress.org.

                                  We ended up with a lot of empty string values instead of NULLs for columns like `context` and `plural`. GlotPress expected `null` specifically in few places in the codebase. The specific consequences were duplicate originals, few incorrectly updated originals, and extra PO file fields for some strings (context and plural).

                                  The duplicated originals were removed, the team made sure that we no longer allow duplicates. We also made the translations of incorrectly updated originals fuzzy, so that translators could verify the translations were right. Today we fixed PO exports.

                                  So a few things worth mentioning:

                                  • Kudos to everyone who reported, tested and participated in isolating and fixing the issues. Team work!
                                  • If your language is missing strings, please rebuild and rerelease. This will make sure the users who update from now on will get the proper translation files. We’re working with the core team on retroactively pushing language packs to those who already updated their installs.

                                  Current stats:

                                  • Locale state (37 locales up-to-date. 18 locales behind by one minor version. 4 locales behind by one major version. 15 locales behind by two or more major versions.)
                                  • Locales that are up to date with incomplete packages (Admin’s not at 100%) – how can we help them build their packages (Arabic, Catalan, Chinese (China), Chinese (Taiwan), Danish, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Indonesian, Macedonian, Norwegian (Bokmål), Serbian, Spanish (Mexico), Thai)
                                  • We have two brand new locales (Oriya and Lingala), now let’s get those guys started. At the #wcldn contributor day we also rebooted a locale that was half done (was never properly added) and found a validator for it – Kinyarwanda.

                                  Technical chat recap

                                  • We had a technical chat for Polyglots last night. What happened:
                                  • We have a lot of people who stepped up to help: @japh, @CoachBirgit, @ocean90, @miyauchi, @eathanasiadis.
                                  • Next steps: The technical crew should hang out on the P2 and on Slack more, technical list with all the responsibilities documented, partnering up technical leads with community leads so they can work together in their region

                                  Cheers!

                                   
                                  • Marko Heijnen 10:40 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    As stated in the Polyglots Slack channel: The incomplete packages don’t have to be not 100%. The 99% packages can be fine too. I checked Serbian and everything looked fine to me so unsure why it isn’t 100%. And I’m sure other packages have the same.

                                  • Marko Heijnen 10:58 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    If things become more clear what technical leads can do then I still have no problem to step up. For me it doesn’t make much sense if I still do the same (what in general a technical lead can do) without the benefit of more permissions. It comes then down to a nice title with more responsibilities.

                                  • Mayo Moriyama 10:59 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    I asked Indonesian team about the locale. They says they are going to attend Thursday’s meeting. Thank you!

                                  • Kazama 12:12 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    there is no untranslated, fuzzy and waiting string for Thai. but it still 99% not 100%.

                                  • cubells 4:53 am on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

                                    I have the same problem with catalan language: all strings are translated but in index it appears 12 strings untranslated and fuzzy.

                                    I think there is a problem, because it is said by this reason that catalan translation is a incomplete package (Admin’s not at 100%). 🙁

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