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  • Birgit Olzem 11:00 am on December 3, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: , week,   

    Agenda for the Polyglots chat at Dec 3/4 

    Agenda for the Polyglots chats Dec 3/4

    Hello dear polyglots,

    Almost time for the scheduled Wednesday and Thursday Polyglots chats. Here’s the proposed agenda:

    What happened last week

    We are waiting for the string freeze and the translation project for the new theme Twenty Fifteen

    Agenda

    • get informed about the status to WordPress 4.1
    • other discussions

    For today, we have a short agenda.

    Cheers

     
    • Kunar 12:29 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      TRIGGER WARNING: Newbie questions

      Is there an end date for the string freeze? When can we continue our work?

    • Birgit Olzem 3:55 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Hello Kunar,

      String Freeze means, that no new strings are coming into 4.1. We #polyglots have after string freeze estimated one week time to translate the last incoming strings like the about.php Page and in this case the new standard theme Twenty Fifteen.

      You should do all, what you can to bring your language to 100% BEFORE Release.

      Target release-Date for 4.1 and Twenty Fifteen is at the week of December, 8th 2014. See the 4.1 Project Schedule

      • Kunar 5:43 pm on December 3, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Thanks for the reply! The overall Esperanto translation is at less than 2/3 now but with very different progress on the varying parts. Development is at nearly 100%, the three themes are translated. It’s the admin parts that require most work. I am rather pessimistic that this all will be done and tested until then. But considering that the whole translation slept for some releases, I consider it not a bad result.

    • Stephen Edgar 3:56 am on December 4, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

  • Birgit Olzem 3:25 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags:   

    Notes from the Polyglots meetings Nov 26th & Nov 27th

    Here you´ll find the notes from the last #polyglots weekly chat meeting

    Agenda

    Slack Chat Archive

    Disussed topics

    What happened last week?

    We had some trouble with the 4.0.1 because of a series of bugs in GlotPress due some temporary changes in the database. It was fixed very fast, thanks to all, who was involved.

    Info: Only the 4.x (dev) branch was affected. You don´t need to rerelease older versions/tags

    Reminder: If your language is missing strings, please rebuild and rerelease. This will make sure the users who update from now on will get the proper translation files.

    Current stats

    • 37 locales up-to-date
    • 18 locales behind by one minor version
    • 4 locales behind by one major version
    • 15 locales behind by two or more major versions.
      • @markoheijnen will start displaying the percentage and changelog soon too and will flush stats values before every weekly meeting, to be up-to-date with correct data.
    • Some locales that are up to date with incomplete packages (Admin’s not at 100%)
    • Happiness: We have two brand new locales (Oriya and Lingala) and the Translators/Validators for Thai(@kazama), Tagalog (@krzheiyah) and Lao(@douantavanh) are now attended at our weekly meetings, this is great, because Asia was underrepresented in the past. Many thanks to @shinichin and @mayuko for knitting the connection

    Recap technical lead chat meeting

    We had a chat meeting for people, who wants to volunteer as a technical lead.

    In the past, there were the people, who handled all technical stuff around #polyglots, overwhelmed with work. It is a volunteer work – everyone has a real life! So we don´t want to get people burnt out.

    The stuff is now distributed on more shoulders. For the technical part we have a lot of people who stepped up to help: @japh, @ocean90, @miyauchi, @eathanasiadis, @sergeybiryukov, @netweb and @CoachBirgit

    Many thanks for your attendance!

    Next steps for the technical crew:

    • hanging out on the P2 and on Slack more,
    • technical list with all the responsibilities documented, @petya is working on that
    • partnering up technical leads with community leads so they can work together in their region

     Other Questions/Suggestions

    • Importing translations into GlotPress is only recommended, if your locale is very new. Otherwise use only GlotPress for translations to avoid overwriting existing translations. Note: you need to check if the pot revision you used to translate it needs to match glotpress
    • String freezeis proposed for the RC 1 at hopefully December, 1st 2014not later than Dec,3d coming week
    • A lot of pain for #polyglots are the short time sequenzes, after string freeze and missing projects and branches on translate.wordpress.org
    • The bbPress Theme is ready and commited – waiting for implementing to update the locale support forums from bbPress 1.x to 2.x
    • The locale P2´s are planned – needs some changes for user roles, that will come with the new bbPress
      • @netweb finished of the final parts of the 1.x importer on the weekend and now they are working on actual implementation of the where’s and how we’ll actually deploy etc
    • Question came up, to implement Google Translator in GlotPress. This discussion will be continued on a separate post.

    Next week’s Polyglots chats on Slack in the #Polyglots channel:

    Dec 3d, Wednesdays at 11:00 UTC and Dec 4th, Thursdays at 2:00 UTC.

    Sidenote: We wish our american friends great Thanksgiving holidays!

     
    • Mattias Tengblad 7:49 am on November 28, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      “Importing translations into GlotPress is only recommended, if your locale is very new. Otherwise use only GlotPress for translations to avoid overwriting existing translations. Note: you need to check if the pot revision you used to translate it needs to match glotpress”

      Any other technical reasons for this suggestion (thinking of the recent problems)? As long as it takes forever to get new projects and updated strings it’s hard to take this in to consideration. For now it feels like using SVN is the way to go.

      • pavelevap 2:28 pm on November 28, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        I agree, I am using Poedit and testing the whole localization on my localhost and in the end I only import translated strings (after checking suggested strings). GlotPress is sometimes slow, does not have translation memory and it is not possible to test it online in WordPress. The only advantage is collaboration, but due to lack of missing context for many strings, suggested strings by users are usually not very helpfull.

        • Marko Heijnen 12:24 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          But in your case, you ignore a lot of translators that want to help you out (a lot of waiting strings) and it seems in general you do it yourself. Also you still have a lot of fuzzy strings to look at.

          I agree GlotPress can be faster but not having translation memory is an excuse since this would only help when strings are changing. Also I’m currently working on a plugin that would allow you to test the strings directly.

          • pavelevap 3:20 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Yes, but these waiting strings are not usually correct, because of wrong context. Users try to translate some strings in GlotPress and do not know that some strings are for screen readers and others for buttons, some strings are verbs and others are nouns, etc. I try to check all waiting strings and not ignore suggestions. I also approve correct translations, you can see that our language has several users from GlotPress on Credits page. But before approving some string I want to see it in context in WordPress, because it can usually means anything. Fuzzy strings are only not completed translations from Poedit memory (I do not like that they are imported).

            Translation memory is nice feature also when translating new theme (2015), etc. Also when there is only small change in any string (one word), Poedit shows me previous translation (and GlotPress only shows new empty string). I was looking forward to Glossary, but in its current state it is useless (many per project Glossaries). Maybe there were some updates, I am not sure, I did not test this feature during last weeks.

            • Marko Heijnen 4:15 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink

              I would say that you should also decline translations. In the next month(s), we will have decline with feedback which should help you educate translators. But if strings are already approved then it doesn’t make sense to also have waiting translations for them.

              If I’m correct, the moment we add Twenty Fifteen we already include strings from previous themes. Glossary is a locale thing which is currently still per project but will soon also be for it sub projects. Unsure what your expectation are for it but would love to hear them.

    • pavelevap 6:36 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Sure, but some waiting strings are wrong and I did not have time to make better translation or correct and test them (so they are not rejected for now). And it is not possible to approve them, because users could be annoyed by mistakes. I would really appreciate feedback for rejected translations (and also for waiting strings to enable users to improve it), simply rejecting suggestions is bad for users.

      There are some waiting and fuzzy strings, but our locale is almost complete and average user will not see any English strings in WordPress. Translation was tested on live site, proofreaded and it works very well, I guess.

      I am not sure about Twenty Fifteen and even if automatically imported, they should be only fuzzy, because there were some minor changes (for example string from Twenty Fourteen was used in archive name and now it will be in screen reader text, etc). I will not be available during next release, so I am preparing translation now and GlotPress is not helpfull, even if only a week until release. So, I have to use Poedit and why waiting for GlotPress and use it later? Sorry, I also do not believe GlotPress, because there are strange things (for example one string less in admin) and nobody cares.

      Glossary per project is useless, I guess. I will not copy and import terms into several projects, but I will simply use TM in Poedit. One Glossay for the whole WP core would be helpfull as some kind of help for users who want to help with localization. This base Glossary would be also fine for plugins and themes, where users would see that “Post” is usually translated as something, etc.

      • Marko Heijnen 9:51 pm on November 29, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        People do care but you can’t expect answers in a few days, also we have lives. Also the one string of is not to blame on GlotPress but most likely how we imported it. Reason why glossary is not final done is because a lot of use cases like the ones you named.

        Also translation should be done collaborative and if you don’t have the time, see if you can make someone else a validator. The same goes about how you use the glossary, only you know about it. And if you think glossary per project is useless, then you should have said so months ago. Most likely we would already have implemented a fix for it.

        • pavelevap 12:53 am on November 30, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Yes, but this one missing string is only the last from many other problems with GlotPress (not to mention 4.0.1). I know that people have lives (me too) and I do not expect that it will be repaired immediatelly. It is only one example why I do not trust it.

          But problems with active projects only several days before release are very common (as Mattias noted above). Features are ready during beta period, but About page has to be committed only some days before release. Why? Twenty Fifteen is ready for several weeks, but strings are not in GlotPress yet. Why? I will not wait and I will use Poedit, sorry.

          I am looking for good validators, but I did not find yet. Not only for WordPress, but especially for other projects (there are many waitings strings). Some users wanted to try it, but after some weeks they become silent.

          As regards Glossary, I said so many months ago, for example here: https://glotpress.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/97#comment:66. Glossary per project is useless, because when something changes, I will have to edit many different glossaries. I am using tools which are good for my needs and save much time. I wrote 2 years ago that we need to test translated strings online, comments for rejected translations and glossary. Now we have only some kind of Glossary, which is limited per project.

          I am not motivated to use GlotPress which has its own problems. I understand that it is against collaboration, but there are not many usefull strings suggested, so it is not a big deal. But upcoming WP 4.1 will be maybe my last version as a validator, I am not sure yet. I hope I meet you in Prague next year, I was one of organizers of latest WordCamp :-)

          • Marko Heijnen 11:22 pm on November 30, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            haha, I can’t wait to meet you in Prague next year. I’m sure we will have some nice discussions. Also I hope I can convince you to stay with us (if needed) ;).

            After your comment for glossaries we did started writing code. A master glossary will probably not be possible for a while due to the fact that GlotPress doesn’t have global validators yet but I’m sure we will have inheritance soon.

            The only thing I want to correct here is the fact that translate.wordpress.org has it’s issues but not GlotPress only shortcomings ;) Because I totally agree with you that Twenty Fifteen should already be here. Also the last releases I was also irritated that things got done to late.

            The problems with GlotPress as a tool will soon be over. Glossary will be more meaningful soon and also I’m currently working on decline with feedback. Unsure what you mean with “translated strings online” but if we see each other in Prague then I would love to hear how we can arrange that.

  • Birgit Olzem 5:25 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: , , translation tools   

    Discussion: Using translation tools with GlotPress?

    In our weekly chat meeting today, we´ve discussed over a feature request, to implement Google Translator into GlotPress. A feature, that was build in in the past, but was removed after another discussion. (s. here) Sidenote: Some very ambitious validators were misusing it to get their language at 100% and it resulted in very poor translations  Since API keys are needed and if those aren’t passed it will not be displayed and not  because of misusing it.

     

    Upcoming concerns from chat

    • Is it useful, to let the locale editor decide, if translation tools are in use
    • it would maybe useful to get a first raw translations for new locale, but for using it needs proofreading
    • a validator for a locale should be a good native speaker, so doesn´t need a Google Translator
    • If a validator decides to misuse the tool, there’s a very little chance anyone will be able to notice unless a user speaks up.
    • Keep in mind that the Google Translate API is a paid service
    • Maybe part of solution, or just making easier for translators is to list on local site links to online tools for translating and checking spell

    Let´s discuss

    • What are your best practices as translator / validator?
    • Do you use any translation tools for raw translations?

     

     
    • Ze Fontainhas 6:41 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      As far as standard Portuguese is concerned, the quality of Google Translate’s suggestions is at the same level it was back in 2011, that is to say completely unusable, bordering the ridiculous. For us, the reasoning hasn’t changed, either, from 2011: it is basically a nuisance, and extra work for validators. If the majority does decide to implement it in GP, at least make it an admin-switchable option, per project or per locale.

    • Stephen Edgar 8:48 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      One of the things I noticed, maybe interpreted is a more appropriate term is that some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

      Using a translation tool such as offered by Bing or Google helps them understand that original string to which they are then able to edit the translation offered to their native language which they are indeed fluent in.

      So to that point of “a validator should be a good native speaker”, in a generalized view here we are actually asking validators to have a reasonable understanding of English and be a good native speaker of the locale they are translating for.

      For locales with a small team, or single translator and validator who are in this situation we should be able to do “something” to help them out, maybe integrating a translation API, maybe not, but we should be able to recommend “something” to help guide these locales and help them maintain their locale whilst they translate and recruit new contributors for their locale.

      p.s. I agree with what Ze said above, I am in no way here suggesting or recommending the translation of the English string should ever be sourced from a translator or translation API. 😊

      • Ze Fontainhas 9:24 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Yes, but

        some translators have troubles understanding the original English string be it the actual English word or the English grammar.

        The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language, but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

        That said, I do agree 100% with helping guide translators, just not through some funky, unpredictable and often puzzling API.

        • Stephen Edgar 11:06 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          The ONE thing that truly helps is not necessarily investing in being an impeccably adroit master of the English language…

          …. looks up definition of adroit, for a native speaker of English I <3 Ze's writing and prose, we're all always learning new things in #Polyglots :)

          …but much rather properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code. The issue has been raised again and again and the developers need to be made aware of this.

          Yes +1

    • Catiakitahara 9:35 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I think the “validator should be a good native speaker” is quite ambiguous in this context, I guess what @coachbirgit meant was that a validator should be fluent in both languages, English and the one he’s translanting WP into.
      @vanillalounge the suggestion was to leave Google translations as an option per locale. I don’t like it too, but I can see it may be usefull for new locales starting from zero and with only one validator. It was considered because the code is already there and it’s very easy to bring it back while we find better ways to help small teams. But to tell you the truth, Google translate has improved a lot since we have the ability to improve their translations. It isn’t good for whole sentences, but it’s very helpfull in the case of labels.

      • Ze Fontainhas 9:42 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Fair enough, but I insist we do not leave the issue of properly commented and contextualized strings in the source code fall through the cracks. In my mind at least, it takes clear priority.

        • Stefano Aglietti 9:47 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Having GT as an option you can chise to show or not is something easy and with really few works. I strongly agree with you to have developers improve the contextualization and comments whne the write I18N code. The recent bad expirience with the iOS app where comments where simply unusefull should teach us something.

        • Catiakitahara 11:39 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          I agree!

    • Stefano Aglietti 9:44 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I’m with Ze about the need to have proper contexualized comments in the source code. In some cases translation tools ad GT help about some words, some sentence that sound strnage, but in lot of cases the translation is really poor. Need a lot of revision cause lot on transaltion have a sentece format in english style than in locale style. For example the “Please, …” in italian we never translate it, capitalization in sentences are lot different but google keep them ecc ecc. Letting locales validator choise with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise. Google translator can be improved, but you need to submit alternative translation to it and I’m not sure the API allow this. I agree with Catiaketahara that google sometimes helps fon single labels words etc. not for full sentence. . I’m for optionally have it on request by the validators for theyr locales.

    • Stefano Aglietti 9:59 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I know is just not fully related to translation tools, but in some way are internal tools or better internal improvement of glotpress a couple of thing i just mentioned in the chat today cause i joined really late and meeting was ending.

      An helpful tools that great integrate with glossary (i think we should discuss in the future about glossary works and how should be improved) is to have one or more editable pages by single locales in glotpress where we can define style guides to translations that are stuff that can be accommodated into the glossary. I refer to how sentences should be translated persona or impersonal, how capitalization of words and sentences have to done (ex month or day of the week in italian are ALWAYS in lowercase) etc.

      Another helpful “tools” should be short messages that we can make appear in every project even in index pages like https://translate.wordpress.org/languages/it to inform contributor about how things are going, for example whith the problem we had on glotpress on 4.0.1 release alert people that come to check if they can help, that untralsated string or just typos correction should be postponed cause there is a problem, or that a new group or project should soon change so better not spend time for nothing and other message like that. I suppose it’s something that can be easily don but should help a lot. We of it_IT fell a lot the need to have a place for translation guidelines fully integrated in glotpress cause more than 50% of invalidated suggestion from translator are about thing that need to be correct bu hand and are all related to this stuff. As I’m really waiting to have a motivation reject way to inform people why theirs translation were rejected.

    • Xavier Borderie 1:20 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I only use Google Translate to get variations for a single word to be translated. I hardly ever use it for full sentences, and even so have to proofread, rewriting and move around that translation before it feels natural.

    • Kirtan Gajjar 1:46 pm on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Actually, i was the one who raised this request in technical chat.

      Let me explain why. First have a look at –

      https://slack-files.com/T024MFP4J-F032QEVD2-cc3d9c

      I am new to this community and i am the lone translator of my language gujarati. Particularly for my locale, i find google translate very much helpful. My case is same as what @catiakitahara mentioned. My locale is almost starting from zero and currently, i am the only translator(and there’s no validator, i hope i will be some day :)). As described in the document attached above, i find it very useful in my workflow. I use it often. It is mostly correct for single words, and full sentence just needs a bit of rearrangement and proofreading.

      However notwithstanding chat we had yesterday, i’ve also considered the point that its really pain for validators to correct poorly translated strings. In my mind i have two solutions –

      1. Easy to implement and recommended

      As @steveagl mentioned

      “Letting locales validator choice with an option if have the link active or not would be a nice compromise”.

      Let the validator decide to weather or not to put a link of google translator for his locale.

      2. May be hard to implement, but offers great flexibility.

      This includes 1st feature + an additional feature

      If any validator who has activated GT link, and finds out that a particular person is misusing GT way too much, then the validator can ban the user from using GT.

  • Birgit Olzem 10:31 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: , ,   

    Agenda for the Polyglots chats Nov 26/27 

    Agenda for the Polyglots chats Nov 26/27

    Hello dear polyglots,

    Almost time for the scheduled Wednesday and Thursday Polyglots chats. Here’s the proposed agenda:

    What happened last week and why

    There were a series of bugs in GlotPress due to some temporary changes in the database connection code on WordPress.org.

    We ended up with a lot of empty string values instead of NULLs for columns like `context` and `plural`. GlotPress expected `null` specifically in few places in the codebase. The specific consequences were duplicate originals, few incorrectly updated originals, and extra PO file fields for some strings (context and plural).

    The duplicated originals were removed, the team made sure that we no longer allow duplicates. We also made the translations of incorrectly updated originals fuzzy, so that translators could verify the translations were right. Today we fixed PO exports.

    So a few things worth mentioning:

    • Kudos to everyone who reported, tested and participated in isolating and fixing the issues. Team work!
    • If your language is missing strings, please rebuild and rerelease. This will make sure the users who update from now on will get the proper translation files. We’re working with the core team on retroactively pushing language packs to those who already updated their installs.

    Current stats:

    • Locale state (37 locales up-to-date. 18 locales behind by one minor version. 4 locales behind by one major version. 15 locales behind by two or more major versions.)
    • Locales that are up to date with incomplete packages (Admin’s not at 100%) – how can we help them build their packages (Arabic, Catalan, Chinese (China), Chinese (Taiwan), Danish, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Indonesian, Macedonian, Norwegian (Bokmål), Serbian, Spanish (Mexico), Thai)
    • We have two brand new locales (Oriya and Lingala), now let’s get those guys started. At the #wcldn contributor day we also rebooted a locale that was half done (was never properly added) and found a validator for it – Kinyarwanda.

    Technical chat recap

    • We had a technical chat for Polyglots last night. What happened:
    • We have a lot of people who stepped up to help: @japh, @CoachBirgit, @ocean90, @miyauchi, @eathanasiadis.
    • Next steps: The technical crew should hang out on the P2 and on Slack more, technical list with all the responsibilities documented, partnering up technical leads with community leads so they can work together in their region

    Cheers!

     
    • Marko Heijnen 10:40 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      As stated in the Polyglots Slack channel: The incomplete packages don’t have to be not 100%. The 99% packages can be fine too. I checked Serbian and everything looked fine to me so unsure why it isn’t 100%. And I’m sure other packages have the same.

    • Marko Heijnen 10:58 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      If things become more clear what technical leads can do then I still have no problem to step up. For me it doesn’t make much sense if I still do the same (what in general a technical lead can do) without the benefit of more permissions. It comes then down to a nice title with more responsibilities.

    • Mayo Moriyama 10:59 am on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I asked Indonesian team about the locale. They says they are going to attend Thursday’s meeting. Thank you!

    • Kazama 12:12 pm on November 26, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      there is no untranslated, fuzzy and waiting string for Thai. but it still 99% not 100%.

    • cubells 4:53 am on November 27, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I have the same problem with catalan language: all strings are translated but in index it appears 12 strings untranslated and fuzzy.

      I think there is a problem, because it is said by this reason that catalan translation is a incomplete package (Admin’s not at 100%). :(

  • Birgit Olzem 6:57 pm on June 18, 2014 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: international sites, o2, , team blog   

    O2 for international sites. What do you think about? 

    At our first Contributor Day, at WordCamp Hamburg last monday, we have build a team to improve our germanophon community. In this procedere we´ve discussed how we can organize our team.

    One idea is to having an own P2 / O2 Make (public reading), where we can talk in german without flooding the existing make blogs here at w.org. Temporary we try to organize with a trello board. For small tasks it is a fine solution, but for general discussions to confusing.

    Here are some scenarios, that we had extracted:

    • XX.wordpress.org/make
    • make.wordpress.org/XX
    • make.wordpress.org/polyglots/XX
    • make.wordpress.org/community/XX

    What do you think? Is this an idea, you can deal with and use for your community?

    How is your workflow in your community?

    Thanks for your opinion and engagement to make the world a little better ;-)

     
    • daveshine (David Decker) 7:13 pm on June 18, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      For “speaking URLs” I like “make.wordpress.org/XX” the best, otherwise also “XX.wordpress.org/make” makes sense. The other 2 are already too long in my opinion.

    • Ze Fontainhas 9:20 pm on June 18, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      xx.wordpress.org/something is what makes sense to me, in which “something” could be either “team”, “discuss” or any variation of that. “make” already has a specific connotation I guess

    • Andrew Nacin 11:19 pm on June 18, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I definitely think we can do something on xx.wordpress.org (something I remember discussing previously).

      Alternatively: Let’s say your forums were bbPress 2.0 and everyone had them — would a single “meta” forum area be appropriate and sufficient?

      • Birgit Olzem 10:41 am on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Yes, we´ve talked about this topic at Contributor Day in London last year.

        I think forums are not the best solution. For beeing consistently in organisation and communication for teams, I think we must use the infrastructure P2 / O2 Make-Blogs. New members could better get envolved with this scheme / model. They could orient oneself and easily find the way to communicate and contribute to.

        My thought goes a little bit forward: The user management for access the teams can driven by rosetta sites admins / editor resp. the locale reps. Every user with a .org profile could sign up over contact form.

        The main argument, why I think P2 / O2 is the best way: Notifications. It is much easier to get notified over a make blog, instead a topic in forums. And we can inform better about getting envolved with notes in sidebar and so on.

        All the arguments, why we use – for example – here for polyglots the same way to communicate with each other.

      • Ze Fontainhas 12:07 pm on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Agree with P2/O2 being better than forums, for all the reasons listed by Birgit and David. That said, let’s keep in mind that make/polyglots is the home of translators and not necessarily a country/locale community. Granted, they often overlap, but not always. Speaking exclusively for pt_PT, we’d have no problem moving all discussions about translations to a .org hosted P2/O2, but would have a serious one moving the community debate there; community management requires a lot more than just slapping a P2/O2 on it, and neither does that discussion necessarily belong exclusively on make/polyglots, nor is it mature enough (yet) to implement. Baby steps.

        • Remkus de Vries 12:30 pm on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Agreed 100%.

        • daveshine (David Decker) 1:24 pm on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          As of my understanding it’s not about touching the Polyglots base here, it’s just offering the P2/O2 functionality to locale/country communities to power their blogs. Example: de.wordpress.org/blog/ would open as a P2/O2 — that would be awesome!

          This P2 here has to stay, absolutely!

          • Birgit Olzem 1:39 pm on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            Sorry for objection @daveshine, don´t replace the standard blog for P2/O2!

            The blog is reserved for announcements and public articles. Not for discussion about organisation and improvements for locale communities.

            I prefer de.wordpress.org/make

            It´s a better consistence and namespacing

            „make“ in context doing great stuff for / with / in the locale community

            Organising contribution to other w.org projects für beginners in native language and so on.

          • Ze Fontainhas 1:43 pm on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            That was my point: community-operation-under-org is not defined or discussed, at this point (and keep in mind that “locale” isn’t necessarily “community”, see Belgium, Switzerland (1 community, n languages), or French (1 language, n communities). I am all for discussing it, but just not in this specific context, which has a clear, feasible and objective scope.

        • Torsten Landsiedel 7:44 am on June 20, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          This is not about having central place to discuss all things community, it is about adopting the idea of the make-blogs to locales. (At least for me.)

          Examples:
          de.wordpress.org/translation -> discussions about German translations
          de.wordpress.org/supporting -> discussions about supporting in the German forums
          de.wordpress.org/core -> discussions about German/translation related core patches
          etc. etc.

          This could be a place to prepare contributions in German and to discuss things which don’t have to flood international P2s.

          We don’t want to use the name “make” or make the make-blogs obsolete. It is just a step between, like we do now (with a wp.com blog) with translation here: http://teamwpde.wordpress.com/

          Or would this be an act of isolation again?

          • Ze Fontainhas 9:35 am on June 20, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            That looks like a lot of buckets :) It seems to me that discussing things like support and core patches, even if specific to a locale, could benefit all locales by being at the same place and in English, no? This may require some @samuelsidler input, so ping.

            • samuelsidler 4:21 am on July 9, 2014 Permalink

              Yeah, too many buckets. In general those things belong back on the English-speaking sites. Only locale-specific things should be on the locale sites.

          • Birgit Olzem 11:11 am on June 20, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

            @zodiac1978: I think, it don´t need more than one P2. The locale specific topics – in native language for german speaking – could separated with categories and colour tags.

            The big picture, why I want to discuss it here, is to make this native speaking P2s available for all people, who has a w.org login.

            I´ve talked with @samuelsidler some days ago and he meant, that we could use our community site wpde.org for this case.

            But I think, that option is likely an isolated application. We´re endeavored to desestablish this gap.

            @vanillalounge you´ve criticized this same gap in your keynote at #wchh14

            Please correct me, if my thoughts going into a wrong direction.

            I seem to remember, that at #wceu last year it was a topic, to bring the communities together. So I think, using the w.org infrastructure is the best way – because we all use the same CI / CD for the project.

            For us in Germany it is one mouseclick away to setup an own P2, but is this the best way for working together as a big worldwide community?

            The second argument. If we set up an own P2, so who is the Gatekeeper? If we use w.org infrastructure, so there can the respective user for the international sites step into this role, too. It is easier to maintain and respects the trademark policies.

            My 2cts and reflects my personal opinion. ;-)

    • obstschale 10:31 am on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I like xx.wordpress.org/sth. Ze’s arguments are good.

    • daveshine (David Decker) 11:07 am on June 19, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I vote for a P2/O2 solution! It’s more native and dynamic and most “insiders” are already used to it because of the Make network on .org.

      Especially easy live comments, feeds and subscriptions make it more easy, and if there’s something more “long form” content to tell about, than the blog functionaly is also an advantage.

      Thanks, Dave :)

    • Caspar 2:41 pm on June 20, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      @nacin Only because our Trello boards are flooded and we *really* need to create a solution within a matter of days rather than weeks:

      Would xx.wordpress.org/sth be available very soon? Or would it need to be discussed in general?

      We generally wouldn’t have a problem to use a self-hosted P2 for now if it wasn’t for the idea being so overwhelmingly intriguing that people logging into their w.org profiles could just post away in a xx.wordpress.org/sth solution.

      So, is it something we could help making available real soon? Or should we go with a self-hosted for now?

    • Caspar 2:42 pm on June 20, 2014 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      community management requires a lot more than just slapping a P2/O2 on it

      Got that. :)

  • Birgit Olzem 11:31 am on October 26, 2013 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: ,   

    Hi,

    I miss many names under translator section on credits page. There are only users listed with validator rights, but no user who helped out to translate.

    Can anyone this confirm?

    Best regards,
    Birgit

     
    • dyrer 12:16 pm on October 26, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Thats true, validator takes the compliments ;)

    • Naoko Takano 2:31 am on October 27, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      I noticed the same thing. Non-validators who have translations approved for 3.7 are not showing up on /wp-admin/credits.php as they used to.

    • Nashwan Doaqan 5:26 am on October 27, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Thats true, we need a hot-fix!

    • pixolin 8:58 am on November 6, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      This is somewhat frustrating.

      You attend a WordCamp. You learn, everybody is invited to contribute. You return home and make your contribution by translating all open terms of a new WordPress version. Then … nothing happens. The new version comes out, everybody is happy, the validators get credited for their kind contribution.

      Not being a validator, you feel overlooked. You don’t get mentioned anywhere. You don’t even know, what parts of your translation made it into the new version (and probably even more important, why some where rejected). You don’t know wether anybody cares about your contribution or not.

      You ask a validator, why it is as it is. She cares and writes a blog post here. Some acknowledge that only validators get credited. And that’s about it. A maintenance release comes out. Again, you don’t get credited. Never mind. Just feel free to contribute.

    • Andrew Nacin 1:04 am on November 22, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      Hi all. I’m sorry, I didn’t see this until now. This was a bug in the credits API. (It was a typo — “wp/wp/dev” instead of “wp/dev”.) It is now fixed. All installs cache credits data for 24 hours, but after that (or if you have not visited credits.php in the last day) this will be fixed everywhere.

      @pixolin I wrote the credits API originally, and pushed really hard to make sure all contributors got included — large or small, translators or validators, developers or designers. I totally understand your frustration and I’m sorry it took until now for you to be properly recognized.

      • pixolin 12:30 pm on December 5, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        @nacin I just stumbled upon your answer today. Thank you very much for your kind attention!

        In the meantime I tried my best to contribute to WordPress 3.8’s German translation and must say it’s not only fun but also a great way to spot changes in new versions, which alone is already well worth the effort.

  • Birgit Olzem 8:37 am on October 22, 2013 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: , , , ,   

    Hi @Ze and @nacin,

    I can´t create a RC Build in Rosetta for de_DE to test it.

    My workflow:

    1. add all dependent files into svn at /tags/3.7/dist (liesmich.html & wp-config.php)
    2. commit changes to svn
    3. go to rosetta

    Build a new packet:

    • source: translate.wordpress.org
    • Locale branch: /tags/3.7
    • Project: Development trunk
    • Revision: 25851
    • Version: 3.7-RC1-25851
    • push the button

    I get following error message:

    Fehler beim Kopieren von /tmp/rosettaVtIemt/de_DE/dist/liesmich.html zu /tmp/rosetta4vXl9F/wordpress!

    What can I do to fix this problem?

    Best regards,
    Birgit

     
  • Birgit Olzem 1:02 pm on July 30, 2013 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags: , ,   

    Hello,

    how can I find out, who was involved in translation for 3.6.x? In the credits.php I´ll find only Users with validator rights.

    We want to list all involved in our blog, to say many thanks for assistance.

    Thanks for answer and best regards,
    Birgit

     
    • Kevin Kyburz (@swissky) 1:07 pm on July 30, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      You can see this after Update in the about.php Site.

      • Birgit Olzem 1:16 pm on July 30, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Hello Kevin,

        that was right in older versions. Actually in 3.5.x are only users with validator rights listed. In 3.6 RC2 too.

        This is strange, because I don´t want to open every string in GlotPress to look, who was the translator ;-)

        Since opening GlotPress for all wp.org Users, it ist possible to have more than 20 Translators or more.

        Perhaps I am blockhead and couldn´t find the solution in easy way ;-)

    • Andrew Nacin 8:29 pm on July 30, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      This will be fixed come 3.6 final. I’ll try to get to it today.

    • Xavier Borderie 9:04 am on July 31, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

      On the other hand, we are only a couple of translators fro fr_FR in order to keep it tight, and GP users are listed in the About page even though their strings are marked as “Old” — and are often of poor quality (sometimes even gibberish).

      How can I stop them from being listed? Currently I have to filter strings by username, validate their old strings in order to have them under my own name, then re-upload my .po file in order to override their now-validated strings. And there are some usernames that don’t even seem to have strings… Is there an easier way?

      • Remkus de Vries 9:37 am on July 31, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        Unless I don’t understand you correct, but what I do in such cases is edit the string and hit the add translation button and that registers it as mine. No uploading necessary.

        • Xavier Borderie 9:50 am on July 31, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Yep, that’s what I do: click “Add translation” on strings that aren’t mine.
          Uploading my .po file afterwards turns them back to the previous username.

          I uploaded the file in order to overwrite bad strings that I clicked “Add translation” to without correcting the translation, but it seems that’s not enough.

          And there are still username I can’t find strings for.

          GP can be tricky at times :)

        • Xavier Borderie 12:18 pm on July 31, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          Still, it baffles me a bit that authors of strings marked as Old (and Rejected also?) are present in the translation credits.

          And I can’t just click “add a translation” on a bad string, so I have to edit all these. Erf.

        • Xavier Borderie 12:26 pm on July 31, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

          OK, further testing gave this: clicking “Add translation”, whether I edit the string or not, does not change anything, as when I search for that username again, the same strings (in their unedited state) get listed.

          There is something fishy in there.

      • Marko Heijnen 6:41 pm on August 5, 2013 Permalink | Log in to Reply

        I will see what I can do to fix this.

  • Birgit Olzem 2:03 pm on December 3, 2012 Permalink |
    CoachBirgit • de.wordpress.org editor
    Tags:   

    What about “Choose a Featured Image” ? In our dev-system we use WordPress 3.5-RC2-22975 to check the translations. Today I got 2 new strings in GlotPress “Reverse order” and “Set featured image”. But I can´t find the string: “Choose a Featured Image”

     
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