Felipe Santos 7:47 pm on March 10, 2020

Proposal: Delete project’s language pack when below specific percentage

I introduced a proposal on Trac, and I’m bringing it here, so we can discuss it deeply.

Currently, a language pack is created when more than 95% of the project is translated. If new stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. are created, the same pack is still available, but it is just updated when it reaches 95% again.

That makes some projects that are not actively being translated still having the language pack even if they have a small percentage of translated strings for the language.

I suggest that we delete automatically a language pack when they have a representation of less than 85% of strings translated. In this case, a project language pack will be generated when 95% is translated and would be available as long as it represents more than 85%.

If 85% happens to be a lot, we could also try a smaller representation. I’m not sure which exactly should be the representation, but I truly believe that we need a minimum percentage.

@knutsp has provided an amazing comparative:

Project A version 1.0 starts with 20 strings and soon gets 19 accepted translations. Some versions later it has 200 strings, but still only 19 translated (9.5%). Language pack remains.

Project B version 1.0 starts with 200 strings and gets 188 accepted translations. Some versions later the situation is the same (94%). No language pack.

Update (2020-04-03): Considering the feedback that we got here, I decided moving this proposal to new fragmented ones.

Yui 8:38 pm on March 10, 2020

Whats the main goal of deleting langpack? It seldom break things, even if langpack was generated for very old version.

For large plugins and themes users will have at least something translated,
sometimes even the most important features.

In case old langpack causing problem, it can be a good idea if GTEGeneral Translation Editor A General Translation Editor (often referred to as GTE) is a person, who has global access to validate strings on all projects for a specific locale.’s can delete it.
- Felipe Santos 10:20 pm on March 10, 2020
  Whats the main goal of deleting langpack?
  - We can’t update the language pack again until it reaches 95%
  - Currently, even projects that have few translations (i.e. 10% or less) can have a pack.
  If we don’t have a minimum for the pack keep being available, why do we have for the pack creation? I don’t see how that could make sense.
  
  As I said, the minimum doesn’t need to be 85%, but a minimum is needed, IMHO.
tobifjellner (Tor-Bjorn Fjellner) 9:40 pm on March 10, 2020

This proposal could cause problems for pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party developers. If a plugin has been translated but then some 10% new stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. are added in the plugin, then the langpacks would suddenly disappear?
Obviously untranslated strings are an inconvenience, being shown in the source language, but suddenly pushing the plugin back to a totally untranslated state doesn’t make sense to me.
- Felipe Santos 10:10 pm on March 10, 2020
  
  If a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party has been translated but then some 10% new stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. are added in the plugin, then the langpacks would suddenly disappear?
  
  The 85% is just and option, could be something like 50% if that makes more sense. The only point is that we need a minimal.
  
  I don’t think that makes sense having to wait 95% for pack creation, and having no borderline at all.
  
  Do you think that a plugin that has, i.e., 10% of translated strings for a specific language should still have language pack available?
Wolly aka Paolo Valenti 9:59 pm on March 10, 2020

I agree with @fierevere and @tobifjellner
tobifjellner (Tor-Bjorn Fjellner) 10:58 pm on March 10, 2020

Perhaps a better option would be if we would have a way to manually create an updated language pack even when the translation is less than 95%?
There are plugins that have 100 stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. in the back-end and show 2-3 strings front-end, and some users are very eager to get those strings translated.
The downside here would be that some plugins may have some kind of translation already included directly in the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, and if we push a language pack from the i18nInternationalization Internationalization (sometimes shortened to I18N , meaning “I - eighteen letters -N”) is the process of planning and implementing products and services so that they can easily be adapted to specific local languages and cultures, a process called localization. This is the process of making software translatable. Information about Internationalization for developers can be found in the Developer’s handbooks. repoWordPress Localization Repository The WordPress Localization Repository at https://i18n.svn.wordpress.org/ is a Subversion repository where official WordPress translations are maintained. See Working with the Translation Repository for details., then this language pack takes precedence and may push out translations that were provided from/via the plugin developer.
- Felipe Santos 11:23 pm on March 10, 2020
  
  That makes sense. Having a way for GTEs (and maybe PTEs for their specific projects) create or delete langpack could be a good idea, if that’s what you’re saying.
  
  Still, if we are keeping the 95%, I believe that a minimum would still be important. They could be created again manually by the editors in this case, what do you think?
  - tobifjellner (Tor-Bjorn Fjellner) 11:58 pm on March 10, 2020
    
    I think it would be hard to say any specific number. Just know from own experience that some users so much want to have a couple of visible stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. translated. But in order to help that user out, I have to translate some 100 back-end strings, where almost half of the strings are marketing messages, trying to sell a PRO version…
    In other cases the i18nInternationalization Internationalization (sometimes shortened to I18N , meaning “I - eighteen letters -N”) is the process of planning and implementing products and services so that they can easily be adapted to specific local languages and cultures, a process called localization. This is the process of making software translatable. Information about Internationalization for developers can be found in the Developer’s handbooks. of a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party may be so badly done that after the developer fixes all my feedback there won’t be many strings left – then it may feel pointless translating a lot of short strings that hopefully will be gone in a week…
    If I (or a PTEProject Translation Editor A Project Translation Editor (often referred to as PTE) is a person, who has access to validate strings on a specific project (for example BuddyPress, WooCommerce or Twenty Fourteen) for one specific locale. A project translation editor can approve strings that are added by translation contributors. Per project translation, editors are appointed by a general translation editor after a request by the project author or by the contributors themselves., obviously) could just push a fresh package manually and responsibly, then that would be nice.
    - Felipe Santos 12:15 am on March 11, 2020
      
      I agree totally with what you said.
      
      In this case, we could have 2 methods of creating the pack (automatic or manual).
      
      The automatic would go by default (95% for creating and maybe 50% for deleting), and we could have an option to activate the manual method. When the manual method gets activated, the pack wouldn’t be created/deleted automatically, but the editors could do it manually (independent of the stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings.’ percentage).
      
      Something like that makes sense for you?
      - tobifjellner (Tor-Bjorn Fjellner) 12:39 am on March 11, 2020
        
        I’d rather say like this:
        Never delete language packs automatically.
        But: allow editors to delete language packs, and allow them to manually force building of a language pack, regardless of current percentage.
Naoko Takano 5:59 am on March 11, 2020

I also agree manual option for G/PTEs to create and delete langpacks make sense. Those Translation EditorsTranslation Editor Translation editors can approve translations for projects. The GTE (General Translation Editor) and LM (Locale Manager) roles can add new users with the "Project Translation Editor" role that can approve translations for specific projects. There are two different Translation Editor roles:
General Translation Editor and Project Translation Editor should be trustworthy enough to make such decisions.
Dominik Schilling 8:39 am on March 11, 2020

It’s still not clear what the actual issue is you’re trying to resolve. But like I said on the ticket I’m open for changes if they make sense.

However, there will definitely be no way to manually delete or create language packs. Leave this task to machines and not translators.

So the only option right now is to tweak the threshold. We could adjust it depending on existing language packs. If there is one the threshold could be lowered to 50% for example.
Note that the threshold exists so that we don’t have to ship a new language pack on every single stringString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. change.
- Felipe Santos 11:54 am on March 11, 2020
  
  I see the current way as a bad UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it. because we have some packs that mostly don’t exist, and I am trying to solve what I see as a bad user experience.
  
  The main reasons that I see it this way is because we can’t update the language pack again until it reaches 95% (so if there is a wrong translation you can’t even fix it) and even plugins/themes that have just a few translations can have a pack (so we possibly make the end user confused as they see that a translation exists on the projects’ page).
  - Pascal Birchler 11:11 am on April 2, 2020
    
    Which user experience would be worse: Having an incomplete language pack (and thus only partial translations) for a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party or having no language pack at all?
    
    I’d argue that having no translations at all would be worse. So why delete language packs?
    
    There should be more language packs instead, and less time spent waiting on translations being completed.
Knut Sparhell 6:09 pm on March 11, 2020

Three issues:
1. When translated percentage drops very low, just a stringString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. here and there, but mostly original (=75%) translated extension may inspire people to suggest translations of the missing one.

This may be better handled by lowering the creation limit to 75% and delete the pack (not delete stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings., just pack) when going lower than 25%. The difference between the two limits must be substantial, so accidental deletion after a single update is very, very unlikely. A 50% difference should be enough.

Most important, more important than the actual percent numbers suggested, is that there is also a deletion limit. One can start out with just 1 translatable string, get an ever lasting language pack, even after strings have become hundreds, but still one translated string. Bad design.
- Felipe Santos 1:27 am on March 12, 2020
  
  Most important, more important than the actual percent numbers suggested, is that there is also a deletion limit. One can start out with just 1 translatable stringString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings., get an ever lasting language pack, even after stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. have become hundreds, but still one translated string. Bad design.
  
  I totally agree. It’s a terrible design, in my opinion.
Knut Sparhell 6:17 pm on March 11, 2020

(text lost when submitting comment, issues became meaningless, what is going on?) In short:

1. =75% will inspire to suggest new translation
- Knut Sparhell 6:22 pm on March 11, 2020
  
  (HELP! Text lost again! This is buggy/unstable/bad. Use of less than character?)
  
  One: Less than 25% is bad UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it.
  Two: Sometimes hard to update when % has dropped, even when stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. are bad
  Three: Over 75% may inspire to suggest translations
Yordan Soares 8:21 pm on March 12, 2020

@felipeloureirosantos, I read all comments, and this is my opinion:

In es_VE I have seen several plugins updating the stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. in a way that could be counterproductive with the auto deleting feature. E.g. Some days ago, WP Google Maps sent hundreds of strings without context in a release. The pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party was at 100% and, in a glance, was down to less than 10%. The new strings from that release were for dummy content, all the strings related to dashboard and front-end areas was translated. If this feature had been implemented, all the packages for this plugin would have been removed.

On the other hand, I think that a feature that allow us to generate packages manually, even if there are few percents translated (e.g. 50 of 1000 strings), could be useful. I’m currently translating WP-Invoice, a plugin with more than 1000 strings. All the frontend strings are already translated. However, since the plugin is 89% complete, and not 95% of minimum, the language pack is not yet generated. This feature also will be very useful to regenerate packages with updated strings for plugins and themes with less than 95% completed and make them available in active installation. I think this will be a way to achieve the same you exposed above without any injury 🙂
- Felipe Santos 9:01 am on March 13, 2020
  
  Thank you for the feedback, @yordansoares!
  
  In es_VE I have seen several plugins updating the stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. in a way that could be counterproductive with the auto deleting feature. […] If this feature had been implemented, all the packages for this pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party would have been removed.
  
  I understand that. It could make sense in some cases, but they would be able to generate manually in those cases.
  
  On the other hand, I think that a feature that allow us to generate packages manually, even if there are few percents translated (e.g. 50 of 1000 strings), could be useful. […] This feature also will be very useful to regenerate packages with updated strings for plugins and themes with less than 95% completed and make them available in active installation. I think this will be a way to achieve the same you exposed above without any injury 🙂
  
  Yeah, this would fix partially the problem, but not having the minimum porcentage would still keep it confusing for some users, in my opinion.
Pascal Casier 3:35 pm on March 24, 2020

Sorry for joining the party pretty late but in short my thoughts:
1. Why deleting? ever? Don’t bother about deleting.
2. I agree with @ocean90 that we should find good automated rules, not manual generation
3. How about generating a new language pack after each bunch of stringString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. updates if at least once there has been a language pack generated?

In detail:
1a. If I have a local WP where it has downloaded the language pack because it was last year at 95%. Now it at e.g. 49% and the language pack is deleted on translate.w.org, how does it get deleted locally? I don’t think WP handles that…
1b. We want volunteers to help translate. If they see that 5 out of 20 stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. are in their language and the others not, they might start look on how to help complete. It’s probably a better motivation for new translators to finish something then to start from 0.
1c. In some cases the backend strings could be changed and drop below 50%, but front-end strings are all still ok. If deleting all would be gone.
2. Manually generating should not be needed. Let the system handle it automatically. With 50000 plugins, no GTEGeneral Translation Editor A General Translation Editor (often referred to as GTE) is a person, who has global access to validate strings on all projects for a specific locale. (or PTEProject Translation Editor A Project Translation Editor (often referred to as PTE) is a person, who has access to validate strings on a specific project (for example BuddyPress, WooCommerce or Twenty Fourteen) for one specific locale. A project translation editor can approve strings that are added by translation contributors. Per project translation, editors are appointed by a general translation editor after a request by the project author or by the contributors themselves.) want to have to check those things. Use automation for this.
3. So based on 2. I would say: When a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party reaches 95% for the first time, a language pack is created. If it then drops and drops because of new strings, nothing happens, UNLESS a GTE/PTE starts modifying a string (it could be an urgent modification or somebody restarting with translating). If the strings get validated again for that plugin, start generating the language packs in the normal way, regardless if it’s already at 95% or not.
- Felipe Santos 10:04 pm on March 24, 2020
  
  Hey Pascal, thank you for the feedback! 🙂
  
  I agree with most of what you said.
  
  1. Why deleting? ever? Don’t bother about deleting.
  
  Don’t you think that we should at least take it out from the list of the available languages on the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party page? In this case, it wouldn’t have a misrepresentation of reality.
Pascal Birchler 11:07 am on April 2, 2020

As many others here I don’t see a reason for deleting language packs when they’re incomplete.

Why not just set the threshold to something much lower? Why even bother having a threshold?

If I download a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party that has 5 out of 100 stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. translated, I’d love to have at least those 5 translations on my site.

Sure, we wouldn’t advertise the plugin as being fully translated into that specific localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/, but a language pack should still be generated in my opinion.
- Felipe Santos 8:24 am on April 3, 2020
  
  Sure, we wouldn’t advertise the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party as being fully translated into that specific localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/, but a language pack should still be generated in my opinion.
  
  That’s the point. I agree that maybe the pack doesn’t need to be deleted, but we shouldn’t show it as a language option, IMHO.
Otshelnik-Fm 1:49 pm on May 20, 2021

See the screenshot: https://yadi.sk/i/e1kRInMcS0XLNQ or pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party link https://wordpress.org/plugins/wp-user-avatar/#developers
23 localesLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/, 24 languages (so where is the truth?) But there is no truth!
Plugin translated into 1 language only – https://translate.wordpress.org/projects/wp-plugins/wp-user-avatar/

It turns out that the service is lying. And misleads the potential user of the plugin.
And this confusion threatens with a rating of 1 star for the author of the plugin

Translate WordPress

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Proposal: Delete project’s language pack when below specific percentage

Translate WordPress

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