liegeman 9:24 am on February 4, 2018
Tags: locale requests ( 198 )

Locale code for Simplified English?

I’m wanting to create a ‘simplified English’ version of a website that could be accessed by those with limited English skills or used as a basis for machine translation. The linguistic criteria for this are rather variable (see for example this Simple English Helper Tool). The main distinctive feature would likely be that, in seeking to make the vocabulary and grammar simpler, the resultant text would be less acceptable to a native English reader.

I would not think there was any great need of a specific translation effort for WordPress itself. The default en_us translations would probably suffice, as we could normally assume that WordPress users of simplified English would either be using their own localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ settings for the back end or else have a reasonable understanding of English computer terminology.

As far as I am aware there is currently no locale code for this purpose: but do folk think it would be worth having or know if something suitable already exists? If none exists, how about something that’s not too likely to be used as a normal locale code, such as en_ww (World Wide)?

#locale-requests

Petya Raykovska 2:03 pm on February 6, 2018

Hey, this is an interesting topic.

Would you be able to give a few examples of original stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. and how those would look in simplified English?

Most of the current localised versions of English for the UK, Canada, Australia, NZ and South Africa import original strings and make a few grammatical, punctuation and vocabulary changes.

What you’re talking about seems a bit more complicated and will require the redoing of all 5000+ strings to some extent I imagine.

Could you start with a few examples and we can carry the discussion from there?

Thanks!
Petya
- Daniel James 4:02 pm on February 6, 2018
  
  I didn’t find much on the subject, although I don’t know if I was looking in the right place, although I found this: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Appendix:Basic_English_word_list. I’m assuming the idea is to reduce the amount of variations in stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. so there aren’t as many words and things are simplified from technical terms, is that correct?
  
  Either way, I think @petya is right as this might be a tricky thing to accomplish. I’m definitely keen to see a few examples of how it differs from the current set of English variants.
- Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 4:27 pm on February 6, 2018
  
  The localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/-dependent stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. that are visible on a website’s front-end aren’t that many. We’re talking about text on various buttons, notes about when a post was published, etc.
  But opening this new locale brings forward the need to translate everything that is shown on the back-end, in the admin pages. It’s a huge task, and not easily accomplished. (By the way, in order to be easily grasped and translatable to a large number of other languages, WordPress coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. is already using as simple English as the task allows. A lot of idiomatic expressions have already been replaced with simpler language, in order to aid translation and understanding.
  
  So the more important part would be on the level of website content. There are several solutions that enable several language versions to be offered to a visitor in parallel (for instance polylang, qtranslate-x, wpml…).
  At leasat in some of these, you may define several language versions that use the same system locale, but have separately translated content.
  - liegeman 6:41 pm on February 9, 2018
    
    Sorry not to have responded sooner. I thought there was no interest, as I requested the system to notify me of new comments via email, and still haven’t received any. (I’ll have to see if my ISP’s spam filters are blocking them.)
    
    By the way, in order to be easily grasped and translatable to a large number of other languages, WordPress coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. is already using as simple English as the task allows. A lot of idiomatic expressions have already been replaced with simpler language, in order to aid translation and understanding.
    
    So the more important part would be on the level of website content.
    
    These are my thoughts exactly: which is why I think it would be appropriate to simply accept the translations provided by US English ‘as is’ for the WordPress core, themes and plugins. In practice, it is almost impossible to define a ‘simple English’ standard that everyone could agree on and every reader (especially a machine) could make sense of every time.
    
    @Daniel If you click the, “Choose lists of words which you would like to consider simple,” dropdown on the url I cited you get over a dozen permutations of commonly-used words. Which of these will be known to a reader will, to a large extent, depend upon their interest in the subject matter of the topic being discussed. But how well a machine or human reader will comprehend what is said will be very dependent upon their ability to grasp a train of thought or a more complex grammatical structure.
    
    @petya Passing the above paragraph through Google Translate to Hindi and back gave:
    
    If you click on, select the words “dropdown on url”, which you want to consider simple, you get more than a dozen permutations of the word used in general. Which of these is known to a reader, to a large extent, depends on their interest in the topic being discussed. But how well a machine or human reader will understand whether the idea of a carriage or more complex grammatical structure will be very dependent on their ability to understand.
    
    Clearly, this will take quite a bit of trial-and-error tweaking to get a simple enough result: but it’s typical of the kind of problems encountered. The solution is not so much a matter of standard rules as ‘what works.’ I will be relying on the fact that there are systems supporting more than one English localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/: but I need to be able to distinguish this simplified version from other localesLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ in the url. I had toyed with using en_uk for my originals and en_us for the simplified version: but felt that my US brethren might not appreciate this! Hence my suggestion.
    - Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 12:18 am on February 10, 2018
      
      en_UK is a bad choice, since that would indicate the type of English that is spoken in the Ukraine…
      A localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ code can always be found, though, if we manage to establish that there really is a need for a separate WordPress locale here.
      My feeling is that most of what you want to convert to “Simplified English” would remain in the content part.
      Have a look at this page, for example.
      The only part on this page that is translatable and belongs to coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. is the black top bar with site functions for logged-in people.
      The theme contains translations for things like: “Yesterday at 7:41 PM”, “Search”, “Cancel” and “Reply”.
      Various plugins deliver the stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. “Showing 1–5 of 23 unresolved posts”, “Notify me of new comments via email.”, “Share this”.
      
      I don’t know how to make these strings even simpler…
      - liegeman 1:10 pm on February 10, 2018
        
        I had always assumed that a ‘uk’ localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ code meant ‘United Kingdom!’ However, on checking this just now I find that it should be ‘gb’. But I also found it said that, whilst ‘uk’ is the language code for Ukrainian, the locale code for Ukraine is actually ‘ua’ and ‘uk’ is not a valid locale code at all!
        
        To the rest, I agree. The only real problem is the lack of a suitable locale code. Is it possible to find something suitable, or will it involve a formal request to someone else? I previously suggested ‘ww;’ but on further reflection something like ‘xx’ or ‘xs’ for xlate or xlate simplified might be less likely to cause confusion.
      - Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 10:18 pm on February 10, 2018
        
        @liegeman Yay. I was too quick there. Thanks for correcting me!
        So my main question is:
        Is there really a need to a “Simplified English” localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ of WordPress globally? It’s quite a big task to maintain a locale, and in most cases the English is already “simplified”, especially whatever is visible to a site visitor on the front-end.
        
        I really see a use case for ”Simplified English” as one available option on a multilingual website, but I still believe that this ”language” would be perfectly served by en_US or en_GB when it comes to system phrases. What would need translation would rather be on the content level, i.e. the website editors would prepare and publish their content in, say, English, French and Simplified English.
liegeman 5:12 pm on February 11, 2018

I have no experience of maintaining a localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/: but certainly don’t want to create unnecessary work for people, especially as I also see no real need for any special translations of coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress., themes or plugins.

The problem is that (a) for SEO and site management purposes I need a locale code to distinguish the Simplified English pages from the default English versions and (b) I don’t think it would be good to use an unofficial locale code or misappropriate an official one. So is it possible to register a locale code for this purpose without going to too much trouble?
Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 9:33 pm on February 11, 2018

Wikipedia has a version for simplified English. They use the sub-domain “simple.” but the language code is “en”, i.e. the same that they use for their normal English site.
So, there is no special localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ code for Simplified English, and you probably won’t need it. It’s still English, you just use a different sub-domain or sub-directory.
- liegeman 1:42 pm on February 14, 2018
  
  The problem is that I have looked at a wide range of WordPress add-ons offering automatic translation of an entire site; and all of them operate on the assumption that the software recognizes and handles the source and target texts on the basis of their language and localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ codes only. This is reflected in their use of these codes as part of the domain or subdirectory name. So I am forced to either:
  1. Put my simplified pages, and all the translations derived from them (irrespective of how they are translated) in a ‘simple’ domain or subdirectory, whilst keeping my original English pages elsewhere. So if I can’t get a valid locale code, it seems I would be forced either to …
  2. Use a fake locale code for the ‘simple’ version (which may be made obsolete if a dedicated code is issued later or my code is assigned to another locale), or
  3. Use the unadorned ‘en’ language code that is normally used for US English for my simple version and ‘en_GB’ for my original.
  Although, as a Brit, I could justify describing US English as ‘simple’ (ducks quickly!), none of the above options look as practical to me as having a recognized official locale code for such purposes.
  - Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 2:09 pm on February 14, 2018
    
    Creating a version with “Simplified Engliish” would rather be seen as a “variant”, in the same way that:
    • de_DE and nl_NL have -formal variants
    • de_CH has an -informal variant
    • pt_PT has a variant in order to let users select traditional spelling or -ao90
    • Serbian team is investigating the possibility to use variants as a way to support both Latin and Cyrillic script out-of-the-box. Currently they’re instead offering a filtering pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party.
    
    But I’m not sure if this distinction is visible to site visitors.
    It might be that you’d need to put the “simple” version on a separate sub-domain or sub-directory.
    - liegeman 4:02 pm on February 14, 2018
      
      I’ll have a go at seeing if the translation pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party can be configured to accept a variant code. But I suspect that attempting to do this, or to change the domain or directory structure for the ‘simple English’ version, is likely to confuse it. If so, it looks as if I will just have to try one of options 2 or 3, despite my reservations.
      
      But many thanks for the time you have spent on this. I really appreciate it.
      
      BTW, I never did receive any email copies of replies to this thread – except one. That was the one with the ‘@liegeman‘ link. Nothing was bounced at my end. So it seems that the email feature only works when @recipient is used.
      - Tor-Bjorn Fjellner 8:35 pm on February 14, 2018
        
        Regarding notifications: Perhaps some checkbox happened to be unchecked. Or something happened. Everything at wp-org has been migrated to other servers during the last weeks, and we’ve had various hiccups.
        
        With regard to multilingual plugins, I know for a fact that these things can be easily set-up with those solutions where you yourself provide all translations.
        When it comes to machine translation, then my personal view is that this technology may help to more or less understand a text, but it is still far from a good translation. I’d never think of using machine translation as the officially translated version of my site. It simply doesn’t live up to my standards.
Petya Raykovska 7:15 am on April 16, 2018

I’m going to remove the ToDo and the tag from this post since it doesn’t need research and the standard process of adding a new localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/. 🙂

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Locale code for Simplified English?

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