Milan Dinić 12:38 pm on December 10, 2010
Tags: glotpress ( 188 )

Proposal for Plugins Localization System

Since Nikolay confirmed that nothing has been done, and didn’t say anything about plans (which I assume means there aren’t one), and since there is continuing need for this from both developers and translators, I want to move process from a death point and speed up making of this system.

We all waited enough, we were patient, but everything has its limits. We don’t want this long-term but short-term, and definitely we don’t want to have a bunch of GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org. installations.

Much, much more time, energy, resources (which all also mean money) are spent now on decentralised, dysfunctional system, than what would be spent on creation of a useful system which would help developers, translators, and users.

I don’t say that what I suggest is good and that should be done just like that, or that isn’t planed same or very similar, but it is a starting point, and since we already don’t have anything, a way for both translators and developers to express their opinions and to push wordpress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ maintainers.

In this proposal, I paid attention to personal experience from both translating and maintaining of a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, issues mentioned in the past, existing tools, how hard is to make this, and being future proof.

Proposal

GlotPress installation at translate.wordpress.org is repositoryWordPress Localization Repository The WordPress Localization Repository at https://i18n.svn.wordpress.org/ is a Subversion repository where official WordPress translations are maintained. See Working with the Translation Repository for details. of plugins translations.
- automatically for every plugin
- by “command” in readme.txt (preferred)
- by plugin’s author at admin tab
For each plugin, every language from WordPress translation project is added with current validators, and with plugins authors as admins. They’ll later have option to add more validators.
Cron (or whatever its name at plugins repository is) checks if there are changesets since last check, and if there are, generates new POT filePOT file POT files are the template files for PO files. They will have all the translation strings left empty. A POT file is essentially an empty PO file without the translations, with just the original strings. and updates stringsString A string is a translatable part of the software. A translation consists of a multitude of localized strings. at GlotPress.
Each plugin has two branches at GlotPress: Development and Stable. Plugins can have many versions so it’s impractical to have branch for all of them. Also there is no need for translations of older versions since their usage (in term of downloading) is low.
Since some plugin authors use only trunk for both development and stable versions, there could be only Development branch if there are no tags, or if stable tag is one from trunk. If plugin starts using tags for stable version, Stable branch is created with strings from stable tag. If plugin switches to using trunk for stable version, both Development and Stable tags are updated with strings from trunk while language files are generated from Development branch (there should be option to inform developer about this bad practise).
Cron checks if there is a change at GlotPress since last check, and if there is, generates a new language files.
For each language, separate archive file of plugin is created, with language code in name and with translations only in that language (as for WordPress, example for file name is plugin-version-lang_code.zip). For automatic install/upgrade via WordPress, depending on language code of installation, api.wordpress.org will provide link to appropriate plugin version. On wordpress.org site, there will be label that says that default version is in English (US), with link to separate page that lists all other languages (as for other versions now).

Notes

This proposal suggests usage of existing tools: there is the way to mass create projects, languages and add validators, there is plugins archives generator that is run on 15 minutes, there is a potbot, there is the way to export translations from GlotPress. The only thing that is missing is ability to have per-project admins in GlotPress, and I am not sure if check for changes at GlotPress can be done right now but coding of second shouldn’t be very hard, while for first it can be temporary created without per-project admins who can be bulk added later. So it shouldn’t involve a lot of coding of a completely new code, there is already a basis that should be adapted.
Folder languages is de facto standardized as a location for translations so POT, PO and MO filesMO files MO, or Machine Object is a binary data file that contains object data referenced by a program. It is typically used to translate program code, and may be loaded or imported into the GNU gettext program. This is the format used in a WordPress install. These files are normally located inside .../wp-content/languages/ should be placed over there.
This summer, on mailing there was discussion initialized by problem mentioned in first paragraph of this post, and issue of large archives size (because all translations are in it) came up, so solution with per-language archives seemed most logical.

#glotpress

Doktor Bro 6:13 pm on December 10, 2010

Very nice proposal, Milan! The problem is, the Automattic guys don’t see the value of translation as huge as we do.
- Milan Dinić 6:40 pm on December 10, 2010
  
  I know very well the fact that lately Automattic cares less and less about localizationLocalization Localization (sometimes shortened to "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or service to a particular language, culture, and desired local "look-and-feel." but my idea is to mobilize community which would maybe force them to do something for us. Now there are two people working on wp.org (including Nacin!) so we could get something done.
  - Peter Westwood 10:26 pm on December 10, 2010
    
    I know very well the fact that lately Automattic cares less and less about localizationLocalization Localization (sometimes shortened to "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or service to a particular language, culture, and desired local "look-and-feel."
    
    I not sure how Automattic is relevant to the discussion here?
    
    I care passionately about localization and feel your pain regarding how badly the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party translation process works at the moment.
    
    I too want to have a solution which allows for plugin translation to be run through GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org. much like coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. translation is.
    
    There are also a lot of other improvements I would love to make to the current core process – e.g. switching to separate language pack downloads, make it easier to switch an EN install to another language etc.
    - Remkus de Vries 10:07 am on December 11, 2010
      
      I too want to have a solution which allows for pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party translation to be run through GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org. much like coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. translation is.
      
      There are also a lot of other improvements I would love to make to the current core process – e.g. switching to separate language pack downloads, make it easier to switch an EN install to another language etc.
      
      Great to hear that Peter. How can we, as translators and such, help this process / transition as ultimately that is the question Milan has raised
    - Milan Dinić 4:11 pm on December 11, 2010
      
      I not sure how Automattic is relevant to the discussion here?
      
      Lets be honest: Automattic is relevant when we are speaking about things related to wp.org infrastructure. Its true that lately, first with Otto and now with Nacin, there is a way for more independent influence but Automattic still has a role.
      
      There are also a lot of other improvements I would love to make to the current coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. process – e.g. switching to separate language pack downloads, make it easier to switch an EN install to another language etc.
      
      Thats why I said that what I suggest is future proof, ie. translations will still be placed at GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org., we will only need to change way of their distribution.
      
      We can’t wait to have better support at WP’s core, it would mean that this will happen earliest at 3.2, though realistically it would happen later. We can’t wait to add “one more thing”, as Matt said, we need to have something done and later improve it as usage requests it.
      - Peter Westwood 6:25 pm on December 12, 2010
        
        The problem with what you describe above is it will be a lot of work to implement something which is going to then be thrown away – I would rather the time was spent on implementing support for language packs for coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress./plugins/themes so that we don’t have to keep bundling them together and they can be easier to install/update/maintain/contribute too.
      - Milan Dinić 7:44 pm on December 12, 2010
        
        Just to note that there wasn’t even discussion about language packs (the only mention before your was Nikolay’s) what means this is not decided as something that will be done. Even if decided, we will need to wait at least half a year though probably even longer.
        
        This issue was well-known before it was decided what will go in 3.1 so why there isn’t implementation in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. for it?
        
        How can we trust that this will be in core since there are years long issues that still aren’t fixed and there aren’t any indication that they will be soon?
      - Peter Westwood 11:44 pm on December 12, 2010
        
        How can we trust that this will be in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. since there are years long issues that still aren’t fixed and there aren’t any indication that they will be soon?
        
        The best ways to achieve this are: Get involved in the process which defines the features that will get implemented in the next release – i.e. join in the weekly developer chats, help out with the design, coding and testing of the feature.
        
        The community is a meritocracy anyone can have an impact on the next release – how big is up to them 🙂
      - Milan Dinić 1:41 pm on December 13, 2010
        
        The best ways to achieve this are: Get involved in the process which defines the features that will get implemented in the next release – i.e. join in the weekly developer chats
        
        This is not something that should be decided only by developers, translators also need to take part in decision-making.
        
        For other i18nInternationalization Internationalization (sometimes shortened to I18N , meaning “I - eighteen letters -N”) is the process of planning and implementing products and services so that they can easily be adapted to specific local languages and cultures, a process called localization. This is the process of making software translatable. Information about Internationalization for developers can be found in the Developer’s handbooks. issue, I was told (I think by Jane) that we should first agree here (at Polyglots) and that then we go to chat with something.
        
        So I’m following that with this post and I don’t see disagreements from other translators so now is your (developers) turn to join and tell us about alternatives, but specifically, not globally.
        
        And just to note that it isn’t like I didn’t do anything about this. On 10th July I posted a comment about proposed team for ” Improving the management of localized plugins” and didn’t get any reply. Also note that this is evidence that even at developer level wasn’t decided to use “coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress.” approach so why I should promote it when it isn’t my idea and I don’t know anything more about it?
        
        help out with the design, coding
        
        As said above and in my previous comment, there is only one mention of “language packs” and there isn’t any detail, so I have no idea how would language packs should work, what means that I can’t even talk about it, not to mention designing and coding it.
        
        My proposal doesn’t involve changes at core, just at wp.org so if you have a better solution you should write it.
        
        I don’t know what should I do to get more attention, I wrote a detailed post covering everything and we still don’t get anything.
      - Peter Westwood 1:47 pm on December 13, 2010
        
        My proposal doesn’t involve changes at coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress., just at wp.org so if you have a better solution you should write it.
        
        This section of it does:
        
        For each language, separate archive file of pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is created, with language code in name and with translations only in that language (as for WordPress, example for file name is plugin-version-lang_code.zip). For automatic install/upgrade via WordPress, depending on language code of installation, api.wordpress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ will provide link to appropriate plugin version. On wordpress.org site, there will be label that says that default version is in English (US), with link to separate page that lists all other languages (as for other versions now).
        
        Currently we don’t send the localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ in plugin/theme update check requests.
        
        Improvements take time to envision and implement – please remember that just like your translation efforts a lot of the work done on the core code and infrastructure of WordPress.org is voluntary and done in peoples spare time.
      - Milan Dinić 9:04 pm on December 25, 2010
        
        Since there is no agreement, I created a ticket with request for sending of localeLocale Locale = language version, often a combination of a language code and a region code, for instance es_MX denotes Spanish as it’s used in Mexico. A list of all locales supported by WordPress in https://make.wordpress.org/polyglots/teams/ in plugins/themes update check requests in 3.1.
Doktor Bro 7:27 pm on December 10, 2010

The “community” you want to mobilize is a developer community. The don’t care about user friendly front end, they are focused on the back end functions. Code-is-poetry-style. And I know even translation teams that don’t translate the word “email” because of Anglicism disease. I don’t believe the other pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party developers feel how a good translation can improve the daily work for normal users like our mothers.

The only hope I have, Automattic realize the value of localizationLocalization Localization (sometimes shortened to "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or service to a particular language, culture, and desired local "look-and-feel." and hire a real linguistic who can supervise for the polyglot project.
Sergey Biryukov 12:34 pm on December 11, 2010

This is a very nice proposal indeed. I was thinking about something like this myself for a couple of months, though I couldn’t get around to writing it all down so detailed and thought out.
Stas Sușcov 10:03 pm on December 13, 2010

I don’t care about how well is that integrated/synced with svn, I just want to get a way to upload/update my pot filePOT file POT files are the template files for PO files. They will have all the translation strings left empty. A POT file is essentially an empty PO file without the translations, with just the original strings. into a GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org. instance and allow people translate it. This would both: simplify the update/management process and reduce spam (the old/obsolete, or broken/just to test plugins), if a developer cares about it’s pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party localizationLocalization Localization (sometimes shortened to "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or service to a particular language, culture, and desired local "look-and-feel.", he will upload the pot (generated from plugins directory)!
- Stas Sușcov 10:03 pm on December 13, 2010
  
  I don’t care about how well is that integrated/synced with svn, I just want to get a way to upload/update my pot filePOT file POT files are the template files for PO files. They will have all the translation strings left empty. A POT file is essentially an empty PO file without the translations, with just the original strings. into a GlotPressGlotPress GlotPress is the translation management software that powers Translate.WordPress.org. More information is available at glotpress.org. instance and allow people translate it. This would both: simplify the update/management process and reduce spam (the old/obsolete, or broken/just to test plugins), if a developer cares about it’s pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party localizationLocalization Localization (sometimes shortened to "l10n") is the process of adapting a product or service to a particular language, culture, and desired local "look-and-feel.", he will upload the pot (generated from plugins directory)!

Translate WordPress

Weekly Meetings

Posting here

Proposal for Plugins Localization System

Proposal

Notes

Translate WordPress

Weekly Meetings

Posting here

Proposal

Notes

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