Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:58 pm on March 1, 2016
Tags: directory ( 14 ), reminder ( 30 ), repository ( 18 )

Please do not submit frameworks

Note: We are aware that some frameworks are current in the repository. We are asking you not submit any NEW at this time.

This isn’t a new ‘rule.’ It’s not a secret one either. It’s not listed in the guidelines specifically because any attempt to lay down each and every reason a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party shouldn’t be in the repository just ends in people rule-lawyering. Should we have to tell people “Don’t ask users to write to your plugin files”? No. That should be self-evident. A plugin gets replaced when it’s upgraded, so writing to plugin files means the changes get destroyed. And in many ways, that’s our problem here.

The issue is as follows: Having a framework as a plugin is a poor experience for the user. Not the developer. The user. The user understands “I have an add-on for WooCommerce, I probably need Woo.” They do not always understand “I have plugin Slider Joe. Why do I need Advanced Custom Fields?” In addition, by having a library as a plugin, the onus of version compatibility is now on the person least likely to understand it: the user.

The plugin repository is not, currently, a library or framework repository. It’s not meant like the NPM package manager, or even Composer as a way to define what a plugin ‘needs’ in the same ways for a developer to build a project. The plugin repository is, plain and simple, meant for plugins that users will find useful. Plugins that add functionality to WordPress in a directly inter-actable way.

We don’t allow people to add javascriptJavaScript JavaScript or JS is an object-oriented computer programming language commonly used to create interactive effects within web browsers. WordPress makes extensive use of JS for a better user experience. While PHP is executed on the server, JS executes within a user’s browser. https://www.javascript.com/. or fonts on their own to the repository and, I suspect, most of you would nod and say “Well of course not. A font and javascript should be included in the plugin or theme!” We feel the same way about most full blown library and framework plugins too. The user doesn’t need to know or care about the libraries. They shouldn’t be expected to be responsible for it.

At this time, we are not accepting frameworks as we don’t feel frameworks, boilerplates, and libraries are appropriate for the Plugins Directory. We require that plugins be useful in and of themselves (even if only being a portal to an external service). And while there are many benefits to frameworks and libraries, without plugin dependency support in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. or the directory, it becomes another level of hassle for users.

The parade of likely support issues:

Not recognizing the framework plugin, and thus deleting it (causing the plugin(s) to break)
Not recognizing the framework plugin and thinking they’ve been hacked
Debugging drama, when we tell them to disable all their plugins and they find its a library problem
Updating the framework plugin separately from the dependent plugins, possibly leading to breakage
Updating a dependent plugin without updating the framework, possibly leading to breakage
Plugins not keeping up with library changes to the point that they break
Different plugins requiring different versions of the framework

And bearing in mind that the framework and plugin developers are different people, that’s another level of coordination/compatibility issues. A developer is (in theory) clever enough to write their plugin in a way that it includes the version of the library they need in a way that will not break everyone else. Of course, you developers know that’s a goal and not an absolute.

Frameworks and libraries should be packaged with each plugin (hopefully in a way that doesn’t conflict with other plugins using the framework or libraries). At least until core supports plugin dependencies.

Making this messier is the fact that once a library is in the repository, you shouldn’t put it in your plugin anymore. Why not? Well what happens if they install a library as a plugin, while having the library inside a plugin already? Which one takes precedent? What happens when they’re out of sync and so on? See the goal up above that isn’t an absolute. It gets even messier.

A library is a library, and should be in the plugin, not separate.

Maybe one day we’ll have proper plugin dependencies, but we simply are not there yet.

#directory, #reminder, #repository

JasWSInc 6:18 pm on March 1, 2016

Argh!! We have been working on a framework with the expectation that it would be hosted in the plugins repo in the near future. Shipping it with every small pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is, shall I say, less than ideal

Since that is the only solution at this time I guess we will have to work around this limitation. Really wish there was a package manager in WP coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress..
vovafeldman 6:20 pm on March 1, 2016

Great explanation! Several devs asked to add Freemius Insights to the repo – as much as I love the idea of automatic updates mechanism, the UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it. would be terrible. But yeah – a package manager in WP coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. could be a fantastic addition.
NateWr 6:30 pm on March 1, 2016

Thanks for spelling this out in more detail, Ipstenu. I wonder if I can poke a little further regarding where you draw the line.

For instance, Cool Thing for WooCommerce seems like an obvious candidate. But what about plugins that make use of the REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. v2 pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party? We’re being actively encouraged to build such plugins by lead WordPress developers. But the REST API provides no user-facing features and plugin integrations are not necessarily clear to the user (one big reason it hasn’t been taken up more completely).

There are also a whole host of dev tools which, though they may provide user-facing features, are only meaningful to developers (Query Monitor, Debug Bar, etc).

Then there are the plugins which can provide a common framework or APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. for managing a feature, but which are not useful unless specifically activated in code. Jetpack’s Site Logo feature (now considered for coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress.) is a good example.

These examples may seem like clear yes/no’s to you. But I’m not sure exactly where the line is drawn.

Here’s an example of something I’ve been working on:

https://github.com/NateWr/content-layout-control

I was hoping to turn this into a plugin once it matured and stabilized, but since it is essentially a library which provides an architecture for managing content in the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings., I suspect it wouldn’t be allowed.
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 6:51 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  The line between a dev pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party and a dev library is tricky. Debug Bar and Query Monitor run, and need you to change nothing in your code for them to work. If you have to edit the code of your plugin or theme for the ‘dev tool’ to work, it shouldn’t be a plugin. Does that make sense?
  
  The rest v2 api is one of those rare exceptions where the greater good of a feature pluginFeature Plugin A plugin that was created with the intention of eventually being proposed for inclusion in WordPress Core. See Features as Plugins. trumps the absolute letter of the law. It’s adding a feature to coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. which is usable right away, out of the box, but in a very, very weird way. Which kind of describes the whole APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. project IMO.
  
  If you had a plugin that disabled XMLRPC, even without an interface, we’d allow it. Right? It changes a feature of WP. That’s cool. Similarly, plugins that require the JSONJSON JSON, or JavaScript Object Notation, is a minimal, readable format for structuring data. It is used primarily to transmit data between a server and web application, as an alternative to XML. API and add features to it are okay because the intent of the API is to be in core. Some of it is already in core to boot.
  
  Rest v2 plugins are fine right now. I like them best when they’re wrapped into their parent plugins (like Woo adding a whole mess of ‘if the rest APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. is here, add these features too!’) but the whole featured plugin thing is another discussion.
  
  Looking at that specific plugin, as it is already, it integrates more features into customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. and is probably just fine. Also pretty cool. I’d have to see the code and use it to know for sure (yes, I test plugins 😉 ) but the intent is a library with some built in functionality for changing the customizer as is, so it looks fine.
  - NateWr 7:44 pm on March 1, 2016
    
    Thanks for the clarification!
    - Ahmad Awais 2:01 pm on March 2, 2016
      
      Hey, Nate!
      This is really interesting. Let me know how can I start using it? I believe there are no docs about it at the moment. I like the concept very much and was planning on doing something similar.
      - NateWr 9:13 am on March 3, 2016
        
        Hi Ahmad, it’s not really ready for general use yet. Still a few hiccups that need to be solved. But when it is I’ll write some simple docs, tweet about it @NateWr. If you want to know when docs are created, open an issue on the GitHubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/ repo asking for them and I’ll update the issue as I move forward.
TIV.NET INC. 6:33 pm on March 1, 2016

@Ipstenu,
A library is a library, and should be in the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, not separate.

What about conflicting versions? The first who loads the library – wins? Others – suffer. And probably fail to work.

We had that with Redux Framework embedded in WPGlobus. If a theme has an older (or a newer?) version, there is a conflict. When we both use Redux as a plugin – no conflicts.
- TIV.NET INC. 6:36 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  I see…
  > (hopefully in a way that doesn’t conflict with other plugins using the framework or libraries)
  Well, the keyword is “hopefully”….
  - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 6:58 pm on March 1, 2016
    
    It can totally be done. CMB2 does it marvelously. It’s up to the developer to add the library in an intelligent way, and keep up with its development.
    
    And that doesn’t change if it’s a separate pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, by the way.
    
    Plugin A uses Redux 1
    Plugin B uses Redux 1.3
    Theme C uses Redux 2
    Redux 1.5 is installed as a plugin
    
    Assuming Redux won’t break backcompat, what happens when Redux is upgraded to v2? In that perfect world, nothing. Everyone keeps working.
    
    But… What if Plugin B wasn’t written properly and was taking advantage of an bug in version 1.3? That bug, which no one should have been using, is fixed in V2 and now Plugin B is broken.
    
    This kind of hassle doesn’t change if you’ve included a library or a separate plugin. It’s no easier one way or the other.
- vovafeldman 6:51 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  We managed to solve it in Freemius by keeping backward compatibility and automatically loading the newest version of an SDK based on the active plugins. So yeah – it’s not trivial, but solvable.
- NateWr 7:54 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  For my own little admin pages library, I actually baked version numbers directly into class names to ensure exact version parity even if multiple plugins are loading different versions.
  
  It’s a total pain. 🙂
  - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 9:10 pm on March 1, 2016
    
    Why not do a define for the version number and in the class check, look to see if the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is already active with this version or newer? If so, use the more recent version. Else, un-register and take over.
    - NateWr 9:09 am on March 2, 2016
      
      Unfortunately there were some big breaking changes that had to happen early in it’s life. 🙁
robinwilson 6:37 pm on March 1, 2016

wish I knew what a framework was, then I could avoid it !
darrinb 8:08 pm on March 1, 2016

As someone who literally *just* had a framework pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party submitted and approved last month, I have to say, I totally agree with the premise outlined in this article, but confused on how to handle best practices.

The initial plugin I submitted, Advanced Term Fields, was designed solely as a framework for other plugins to build on. Out of the box, it doesn’t *do* anything other than provide a structure for child plugins to add custom metaMeta Meta is a term that refers to the inside workings of a group. For us, this is the team that works on internal WordPress sites like WordCamp Central and Make WordPress. fields for terms. It’s almost an interface. (Almost.) It’s similar to the Fields APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. currently in development.

The child plugins; ATF Images, ATF Colors, etc., add the actual functionality. Are you saying the best way to handle this scenario is to include the parent framework in each child plugin, as opposed to alerting the user that “This plugin requires XXX plugin in order to function properly”?
- modemlooper 8:33 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  thats the preposed method
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 9:09 pm on March 1, 2016
  
  Yeah, really this shouldn’t have been approved either :/ We’re having an internal reminder for us to stop and think about this stuff rather than push through approvals.
  
  . Are you saying the best way to handle this scenario is to include the parent framework in each child pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, as opposed to alerting the user that “This plugin requires XXX plugin in order to function properly”?
  
  Currently, yes. That would have been the best way. Since your plugin is approved, though, it’s unfair of us to yank the rug out from under you. While you don’t have a great many users, we recognize when the gaff is us.
  - Scott Kingsley Clark 6:46 am on March 2, 2016
    
    Does this mean Fields APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. shouldn’t / can’t be in the wordpress repo for betaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. testing? Or other future feature plugins with no UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing., such as REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. / Fields API are?
    - Gary Jones 1:33 pm on March 2, 2016
      
      We were told that a TGMPA pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party could go into the repo if it was accepted as a featured plugin.
      - Scott Kingsley Clark 3:31 pm on March 2, 2016
        
        Right, but if a feature pluginFeature Plugin A plugin that was created with the intention of eventually being proposed for inclusion in WordPress Core. See Features as Plugins. then stagnates and doesn’t end up going into coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress., what happens to it under the guidelines, it sort of loses that qualification for being in the repo at that point, I think.
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 4:57 pm on March 2, 2016
      
      Perfect world? Would not be accepted.
      
      Reality? Feature plugins are currently an exception for practicality.
      
      It’s not something I personally like, and I think it illustrates many of the issues with the feature pluginFeature Plugin A plugin that was created with the intention of eventually being proposed for inclusion in WordPress Core. See Features as Plugins. project as a whole. But in this case, the goal is to change how WordPress works as a feature.
      
      Obviously we have to allow for wiggle room, but we see a vast difference between, say, a debugging tool that in order to use, you need to edit your pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party and wrap dd() around everything, and the REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/.. That’s a real example, by the way.
  - David Chandra Purnama 12:56 pm on March 2, 2016
    
    I don’t think it’s the best way.
    It’s a long post, so I write it in my blog:
    https://shellcreeper.com/i-think-wordpress-plugin-review-team-decision-to-no-longer-accept-framework-is-wrong-and-this-is-why/
    
    what do you think?
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:00 pm on March 2, 2016
      
      I think you actually argued the point for us.
      
      So, if I install and activate just 1 pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, it might work. But what if I install and activate all 6 plugins. Which CMB version will load in my site? Will everything work? Is my site secure?
      
      If you installed and activated 6 plugins, each written for a different version of a library (CMB original in your example), and then upgraded the CMB library plugin to a new version, you have the exact same problem of ‘will my site work?’ and ‘Is my site secure?’
      
      The only difference you have now is that everyone’s forced to use the same version of CMB.
      - David Chandra Purnama 1:33 am on March 3, 2016
        
        That is not the only difference. If we use framework as pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party:
        1. We definitely get the latest version of the framework.
        2. As framework dev, you can do “backward-compat” but you cannot do “forward-compat” (no time machine). Just like WP maintaining backward compatibility it will give us less problem.
        3. If something goes wrong, it’s easier to debug. to get which one of the dev did it wrong. (not updating/make it compatible to the latest version).
        4. push everything forward.
        
        And what the benefit of using “framework” as “module” as you suggested?
        1. it’s easier for the user, install one plugin and activate. no additional step.
        2. (kinda) no issue if each plugin use different framework: one plugin use CMB, another use MetaBoxMetabox A post metabox is a draggable box shown on the post editing screen. Its purpose is to allow the user to select or enter information in addition to the main post content. This information should be related to the post in some way. by rilwis, another use ACF. (but if 2 or more use the same framework, potential problem).
        
        In my opinion, this will only give headache in the future. It will seem to reduce support question temporarily. But it’s just dodging the bullet for now (?)
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 4:36 am on March 3, 2016
      
      1. You do not get the latest version of the framework. You get what the END user installs. It’s now totally outside your control. Yay!
      
      2. Back and forward compat issues are no different between the two. You have to make sure you work with the new version and fail gracefully if someone accidently has the old. Or vice versa.
      
      3. Debugging is equally as hard. “I upgraded pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party X and now plugin Y broke!” remains true. Really the difference is “Plugin X is framework Foobar” so you can know “Oh I didn’t upgrade MY plugin to work with the new version.” But wait! Now we have another issue! What if plugin Y only works now on the new version of the framework? And we’re right back to conflict hell :/ (Neither method solves this, I feel I should point out.)
      
      4. I have no idea what ‘push everything forward’ means.
      
      And what the benefit of using “framework” as “module” as you suggested?
      1. it’s easier for the user, install one plugin and activate. no additional step.
      2. (kinda) no issue if each plugin use different framework: one plugin use CMB, another use MetaBoxMetabox A post metabox is a draggable box shown on the post editing screen. Its purpose is to allow the user to select or enter information in addition to the main post content. This information should be related to the post in some way. by rilwis, another use ACF. (but if 2 or more use the same framework, potential problem).
      
      Issue #2 is the same, regardless of framework as included-library or framework as add-on plugin.
      - David Chandra Purnama 9:00 am on March 3, 2016
        
        What I mean by “push everything forward” was to encourage user to use the latest everything. (if they want less bug).
        
        I’m sorry, I really want to explain it better, but my lack of skills in english language could be a barrier. I’m sorry if i have to explain it in long sentences.
        
        If you think about it, it’s similar to “WP – PluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party” relationship.
        WordPress gets updated on regular basis.
        
        A plugin written 1 year ago (or several months ago) might works/not working with current version of WP.
        
        WP coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. make sure it didn’t break by always try to have “backward compatible” update as much as possible. And WP also encourage user to always update to latest version.
        
        1. You do not get the latest version of the framework. You get what the END user installs. It’s now totally outside your control. Yay!
        If the user didn’t update to the latest version, and their site breaks/have bug. it’s their fault. not the plugin dev.
        and i believe it’s better for WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ to create environment where user can update easier.
        
        2. Back and forward compat issues are no different between the two. You have to make sure you work with the new version and fail gracefully if someone accidentally has the old. Or vice versa.
        I understand your statement. But a new feature introduces in a plugin update utilizing the latest framework version did not work because another plugin use older feature is “messy” things to explain to user.
        
        And what’s the point in including the “framework” in a plugin when the plugin don’t even know if it’s loaded from the right version.
        
        And don’t you think It’s weird to do backward compat to a library included in my own plugin (?) (when it should/expected to be loaded from my plugin).
        I’m think a lot of dev would not want to go extra mile to do that for “included module”. however, if it’s for “external library” (in this case plugin) where the dev also understand that they “should” do version check, etc.
        
        3. Debugging is equally as hard. “I upgraded plugin X and now plugin Y broke!” remains true. Really the difference is “Plugin X is framework Foobar” so you can know “Oh I didn’t upgrade MY plugin to work with the new version.” But wait! Now we have another issue! What if plugin Y only works now on the new version of the framework? And we’re right back to conflict hell :/ (Neither method solves this, I feel I should point out.)
        But if the user contact the dev for support, it’s a lot easier for the dev to solve the issue.
        “try to swicth to default theme”
        “and deactivate all plugin except this and this framework”.
        “all good?”
        “now activate all plugin one by one until we found the problematic plugin”
        (it’s like the version of “did you turn it on and off again for computer tech)
        
        And if they found the “problematic plugin” they can contact the dev to update it. or fix it themself, or get proper help, or hire someone (like me, well, it’s my job).
        
        actually, if less people get less problem with wp. it’s not good for my business 🙂 (j/k)
        
        4. I have no idea what ‘push everything forward’ means.
        What I mean by “push everything forward” was to encourage user to use the latest everything. (if they want less bug).
        
        And, actually I don’t have plan to create a “framework” or anything. I did not even use one.
        
        I did experience issue with CMB in the past because of version issue. And my solution is to fork CMB and prefix everything with my plugin prefix, and also make sure all js scripts don’t explode and play nice with CMB instance (well, basically eat the CMB and make it as part of the plugin).
        It’s not a good experience. not tasty.
        I could just load it earlier than other plugin and solve the issue temporarily, but i also understand that other plugin can “race it” and load even earlier.
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 2:49 pm on March 3, 2016
      
      The thing is, as a dev you still have to concern yourself with backcompat. You still have to make sure your pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party works with old and new versions of a library, and you still have no idea what version of a library is used.
      
      Literally it’s the same problems.
      
      It’s actually easier for a user if the dev takes care of all that. No matter what, there will be code conflicts.
      
      Right now, we ask the developers to ‘push forward’ – we put them in charge of pushing the new libraries and encouraging new versions of code. If they can do it without breaking things, users will want to upgrade.
George Notaras 6:36 am on March 2, 2016

Hello all,

Since pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party dependency resolution is not there, this convention makes a lot of sense. But I really think that it should be temporary and the possibility of adding plugin dependency resolution to WP (sooner than later) should be explored. Framework plugins definitely have a place in the repository.

On the other hand, since this is about a big categoryCategory The 'category' taxonomy lets you group posts / content together that share a common bond. Categories are pre-defined and broad ranging. of plugins, if dependency resolution isn’t going to be implemented any time soon and this convention is going to be somewhat permanent, I think it’s big enough to have a place in the guidelines, so that any rejections do not look like personal decisions.
- Samuel Wood (Otto) 6:54 am on March 2, 2016
  
  We call them “guidelines” instead of “rules” because we use them as a guide to help us, not as a rule to restrict us. 🙂
  - George Notaras 7:18 am on March 2, 2016
    
    Sure, they are there to help, but aren’t they doing so by setting some boundaries? 🙂
    
    I finally think that making the distinction between a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party (extensibleExtensible This is the ability to add additional functionality to the code. Plugins extend the WordPress core software. with action/filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same.) and a framework is going to be so hard, that dependency resolution will happen sooner than expected! 🙂
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:20 pm on March 2, 2016
      
      I hope so. As soon as it is, we’ll be able to sort this mess out in an easier way :/
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:09 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  A rejection is never a personal decision. But it’s always going to feel like one. No matter how we phrase it, people will always see it as personal, and I totally get that. It’s not a good feeling, being told “No.” But what can we do?
  
  Every single time, we look, read, review, and think about what the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is, what it does, and why it does it. We weigh the pros and cons, the goals, the direction, and the ideals.
Compute 9:49 am on March 2, 2016

So would this be considered a framework pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party that should not be submitted?
https://wordpress.org/plugins/pco-image-widget-field/
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:11 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  Shouldn’t have been approved. Specifically looking at step 3 in your install, yeah.
  
  Which is not a judgement call on your code quality. I like the code.
  - Compute 11:47 pm on March 17, 2016
    
    Meaning that it should be removed from the repository or never have been approved in the first place?
    - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:10 pm on March 31, 2016
      
      Shouldn’t have been approved.
      
      We should not have approved it.
      
      We will not remove it because it’s been 5 months, and that would be really mean of us. Five DAYS maybe…
Mike 10:15 am on March 2, 2016

Searched “framework” in the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party repository and got almost 1000 hits and 166 in the theme repository.
So IMO your argument doesn’t stand up to reality.
Remember the “persuasive” arguments about how safe auto updates were?
Well they weren’t 100% safe by a long shot.
Did they stop? NO!
Every upside no matter how dramatically up it is, has a downside.
We weigh the positives and the negatives.
I suggest while the plugin repository UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. is upgraded that the plugin repository policies go through a zero-based rewrite as well.
- Gary Jones 1:35 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  > Searched “framework” in the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party repository and got almost 1000 hits
  
  Standalone plugins related to Genesis Framework et al would likely have appeared in your search results, so quite a few false positives probably.
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:19 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  Just like we didn’t yank everyone with ‘wordpress’ or ‘pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party’ in the URLURL A specific web address of a website or web page on the Internet, such as a website’s URL www.wordpress.org, we’re trying to be good people and not yank everyone who is a framework and were already let in.
  
  We’re not actually bad people 🙂
  
  I suggest while the plugin repository UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. is upgraded that the plugin repository policies go through a zero-based rewrite as well.
  
  Sure, if you’re willing to allow us to remove every single plugin from the repo, review them, and add them back on a case by case basis. Because that would be the only way to ensure fairness.
Ahmad Awais 1:49 pm on March 2, 2016

Hey, Mika!

With due respect, last year, I was using Titan Framework in my pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party CF7Customizer (in embedded form) and you disabled the plugin. I told you that a user should not have to care about any dependency issues since that would be a bad user experience but I was forced to require Titan Framework as a separate plugin.

Which resulted in 177 uninstalls with user responses like “Uninstalled because it needed another plugin” and 82 people has deactivated the plugin because they might have not installed Titan Framework and they didn’t understand how it works.

Now, you are saying that Frameworks should be added in the embedded form. Which contradicts to why my plugin was disabled two months ago and I had to loose 200+ users coz of that.

May I ask, which one is it?

I feel bad about the whole idea.
- Ahmad Awais 1:54 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  We badly need a package manager and control over which package version should be included.
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 5:13 pm on March 2, 2016
  
  Two separate things. And I did try to explain this to you in the emails multiple times.
  
  1) Once a library is IN THE REPO it’s a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party and you should not include it in your plugin wholesale. It’s now a dependency to your plugin.
  
  2) If a library/framework isn’t in the repo then it isn’t a plugin, please do include it in your plugin.
  
  The reason is that once it’s been approved, well, the genies’s out of the bottle and you will run into conflicts if you try to do both. Also plugins should never include a plugin in a plugin. That defeats the purpose of plugins 🙂
  
  tl;dr – Don’t include plugins in your plugin. DO include libraries that are not plugins in your plugin.
  - Ahmad Awais 7:36 pm on March 3, 2016
    
    Thank You, Mika!
    
    Now I get that. Anywho, I am trying to get rid of those dependencies and building my own to the point and simple libraries (the only bottleneck is availability of time here).
    
    Thanks for making it clearer 🙂 Appreciate that.
    - Ahmad Awais 7:42 pm on March 3, 2016
      
      BTW, come to think of it that I agree with this decision now. Makes a lot more sense.
apsolut 6:27 pm on March 2, 2016
You did the same thing with WP-APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. and others – is there something you guys noticed from that experience ?… This will not solve the problems you highlighted “The parade…” in 80% cases.. It look like you guys know something we don’t or you plan something you won’t tell us.
- There will be no changes (include pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, don’t include plugin in plugin, its framework but its plugin..) without big changes in WP itself, in the end this will not stop anything, frameworks will be stored in another repo,git,bit – and? we/you fixed 4% of problems?
For me, care for normal users would feel/be quite different than all this past years:
customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. fight with others and in the end it still miss 10102 things,logo place in customizer, emoticons ? and yet missing a lot of things in WP itself (did we notice any change in nav-menus..?), its 2016 and normal users get to search repo like its 2001, without filters, lightbox?…

In the end someone will just add categoryCategory The 'category' taxonomy lets you group posts / content together that share a common bond. Categories are pre-defined and broad ranging. “frameworks” and all this will be for nothing….
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 1:15 am on March 3, 2016
  
  We know a lot of things you don’t, from experience mostly. You know a lot of things I don’t. That’s … just kinda how life is 🙂
  
  Here’s our situation.
  
  Option 1 – Frameworks are plugins and we accept them. All new plugins that include said framework have to remove it and change it to a require. All existing plugins should be contacted and told to change their code. Some users complain about installing ‘extra’ plugins and some devs lose users (see earlier in the comments, it’s already happened). Also note – all devs have to put in this requirement themselves, possibly using … a library like TGM. ALSO all devs have to ensure they, now and forever, keep up with the frameworks and ensure compatibility as well as proper alerts if a user removes the framework by accident.
  
  Option 2 – Frameworks that are not ‘functional’ frameworks, but really libraries are treated as all libraries are with all projects, and included separately. Developers have to code the calls to the library, making sure that the ‘right’ version is included no matter what someone else includes. Developers also have to update their plugins when a library updates. though if they properly handle the code calls, they don’t HAVE to. They could use namespaces and cleverly call ‘use MYPLUGINAWSSDK as /aws/AWS/foo/bar’ instead, so their version is what’s used. They’ll probably want to code in a failsafe “If a version higher than mine is used, show a warning.”
  
  Which one’s better?
  
  Neither.
  
  And with that in mind, we decided to pick the side of ‘Which option annoys users slightly less?’ and that’s #1. The one where they don’t have to know (or care) about it.
x000 10:01 pm on April 4, 2016

Can someone please explain why I got a “Please don’t submit other people’s plugins.” denial when I wrote every single line?

It is not a library or anything like that.
- replypush 11:03 pm on April 4, 2016
  
  no worries confusion over account.
ssimo3 4:06 am on February 13, 2017

What is the proper way to include a large framework with a modular directory structure in my project, such as the one at http://www.fieldmanager.org?

I’m well aware of PHPPHP PHP (recursive acronym for PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor) is a widely-used open source general-purpose scripting language that is especially suited for web development and can be embedded into HTML. https://www.php.net/manual/en/preface.php. include() and wp_enque_script(), as well as the “enqueue_scripts” family of action hooksHooks In WordPress theme and development, hooks are functions that can be applied to an action or a Filter in WordPress. Actions are functions performed when a certain event occurs in WordPress. Filters allow you to modify certain functions. Arguments used to hook both filters and actions look the same.. What I am asking is how many times to call each of the above functions in my code.

It would also be helpful to know if WP auto-discovers what I put into the “includes” sub-directory of my custom pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party before it loads the main file of the plugin.
samjco 6:52 pm on August 18, 2017
Couldn’t this be simply fix within the repository by differentiating what a framework is versus an add-on to that framework?

I’m just saying. Plugins are plugins, as long as they work with WordPress.

My suggestion is to have the add-on developers to add a simply line to their pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party reference code: Dependency: framework_slug_name
```
    /*
    Plugin Name: My Custom Addon to a Framework
    Plugin URI: http://www.linkedin.com.in.samcohen/
    Description: The is an addon to WooCommerce
    Author: Sam Cohen
    Version: 1.0
    Author URI: http://www.linkedin.com.in.samcohen/  
    Dependency: WooCommerce
  */
```
I feel for a lot of plugin developers right now
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 2:08 am on August 29, 2017
  
  Until coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. has support for that flag, it’s somewhat pointless :/ I’m all for it, personally, but I’ve never been able to get enough traction.

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