Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, June 1, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, June 1, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

These are the topics that we would like to discuss:

  1. Join us exploring the community.wordpress.org Matrix server. We’ll walk you through how to join and test.
  2. Look at a test-migrated Slack channel on the Matrix server.
  3. Explore a test-setup of the Slack bridge together.
  4. Discuss the next steps.

If you have topics you would like to add to the agenda, please share them in the comments below.

The next meeting will be on Thursday, June 15, 2023 10AM UTC. Also, @psrpinto and myself (@akirk) will attend WCEU and are happy to chat about Matrix there.

#matrix

Matrix chat Summary – May 4, 2023

Meeting was conducted on #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack.

For context on this project, please see A Meta subproject for evaluating Matrix, where the project was announced.

The topics on the agenda were:

  1. Update on the status of community.wordpress.org Matrix server
  2. Tentative plan and challenges with using SSO with WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ to login to Matrix server
  3. Update on the status of importing public SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. history into Matrix server

community.wordpress.org homeserver

The community.wordpress.org  Matrix server (homeserver in Matrix lingo) is now available. However, we don’t recommend using the homeserver as of now, as we are still optimizing its configuration, namely in what concerns logging into the homeserver.

Also please note that it’s likely that we will wipe the homeserver and all data at any point, until we’re confident we have it configured correctly.

SSO with WordPress.org

The only available login method on the homeserver will be SSO (more specifically OpenID Connect, or OIDC) with WordPress.org. This means users log in to the homeserver with their WordPress.org account. Users will not be able to log in to the homeserver with a username/password, SSO will be the only method to log in.

SSO with wporg presents some challenges however, specifically in what concerns usernames, since WordPress usernames are not valid Matrix usernames. For example, WordPress allows uppercase letters and spaces in usernames, while Matrix does not.

Instead of using the WordPress username as the Matrix username, it was discussed to use the nicename, which appears to fulfill Matrix’s username requirements. @akirk @ashfame and @psrpinto will investigate the feasibility of using WordPress’s nicename as the Matrix username and report the results in the next Matrix meeting.

Importing public Slack history into Matrix server

@ashfame mentioned that imports for some public Slack channels have been tested and appear to work correctly, though thread support remains to be implemented. Messages are credited to the right Matrix account, so the user will find their Slack messages linked to their matrix account. Uploads and emojis (in messages and reactions) work as expected as well.

Next meeting

The next meeting will be held on #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack on Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 10AM UTC.

#matrix

Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, May 4, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, May 4, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

These will be some of the topics we would like to discuss:

  1. Update on the status of community.wordpress.org Matrix server
  2. Tentative plan and challenges with using SSO with WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ to login to Matrix server
  3. Update on the status of importing public Slack history into Matrix server

If you have topics you would like to add to the agenda, please share them in the comments below.

The next meeting will be on Thursday, May 17, 2023 10AM UTC

#matrix

Matrix chat Summary – April 20, 2023

Meeting was conducted on #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack.

MigrationMigration Moving the code, database and media files for a website site from one server to another. Most typically done when changing hosting companies. of Messages from SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. to Matrix

The agenda was to discuss a tentative plan for migration from Slack to Matrix. We have identified a successful migration path which consists of moving over the messages in public channels to matrix rooms. All the messages in public channels would be available in their respective Matrix rooms from Day 1 of Matrix. All users would find themselves to be in the right Matrix rooms as per what Slack channels they have joined.

Private conversations (private channels and direct messages) are best handled by user themselves using a browser extension (Firefox / Chrome).

We would use SSO (OIDC) to use WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ account to login onto Matrix. The OpenID Connect Server plugin was built for this purpose.

During the duration of transition, both would be accessible and messages would be relayed from Slack to Matrix and vice-versa using the help of a bridge. As of now, it works by creating a Slack ghost account on Matrix side and we would be trying to make it possible to not need that and just post Slack side messages as messages from the respective Matrix account of those users. Matrix side messages are posted to Slack by a Slack app masquerading as the user, but not accredited to the actual Slack user.

Comment(s) on Agenda post

Alex Stine: When will a test instance be available? Important to start accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility) testing early.

Accessibility testing can start right away with a regular Matrix.org account on any room. There is also a WordPress related room – #wordpress:matrix.org. In this case, you would be using Matrix’s official client – Element.

Our embedded chat client Chatrix can also be tested, which is deployedDeploy Launching code from a local development environment to the production web server, so that it's available to visitors. on https://make.wordpress.org/meta/chat/ for Chatrix’s own room #chatrix:matrix.org

Next Meeting

The next meeting will be on Thursday, May 4, 2023 at 10:00 AM UTC.

#matrix

Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, April 20, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, April 20, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

This would be our fifth community meeting and we would like to discuss a possible plan for Slack to Matrix migrationMigration Moving the code, database and media files for a website site from one server to another. Most typically done when changing hosting companies..

Tentative plan for the future Matrix homeserver for Making WordPress:

  • For a transition period, Slack and Matrix would work in parallel, by means of a Slack bridge, which would send Slack messages to Matrix, and vice versa.
  • Past Slack history (public channels only) would be on Matrix from day one.
  • The homeserver URLURL A specific web address of a website or web page on the Internet, such as a website’s URL www.wordpress.org would be community.wordpress.org.
  • Login will be done through SSO, with WordPress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ account.

If you have any additions to the agenda, please share them in the comments.

Next meeting will be on Thursday, May 4, 2023 10AM UTC

#matrix

Matrix chat Summary, April 6, 2023

@akirk led the chat #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack.

We didn’t have a set agenda this time, so we followed up on some discussion points of the last chat. Below I am mostly quoting myself from the chat. No further questions were asked.

MigrationMigration Moving the code, database and media files for a website site from one server to another. Most typically done when changing hosting companies. of Messages from SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. to Matrix

A big part of the last discussion was around message migration and how to deal with public and private messages. We’ve done some more research on migrating public messages and are currently evaluating whether the Slack Matrix migration tool could work for us. It operates on Slack export files and requires a fresh Synapse server.

We haven’t yet been able to confirm whether it actually can import the messages and hope to be able to share more on the next meeting.

For migrating private messages in DMs or private groups we’ve concluded that we won’t want to attempt their migration but will look into providing tools for achieving that.

Here we’ve found that browser extensions exist which allow you to download your own Slack direct messages inside your browser as a text file. Possibly it’ll be our recommendation to use those tools to export the messages for yourself.

AccessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility)

Another topic that was mentioned was around accessibility concerns of Matrix clients. Regarding this I would like to share this article by Marco Zehe who is an accessibility engineer and evangelist at Mozilla who have switched to Matrix in 2020

How to use Element and Matrix with a screen reader

@psrpinto remarked on this:

In the post they mention a matrix room dedicated to accessibility on Element: #element-accessibility:matrix.org.

I also find this quote encouraging:

Big thanks also go out to the members of the Matrix and Element teams who were super responsive to accessibility concerns

Next Meeting

The next meeting will be on Thursday, April 20, 2023 at 10:00 AM UTC.

#matrix

Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, April 6, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, April 6, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

This would be our fourth community meeting and we don’t have a specific agenda item this time and are thus planning to have an open floor for discussions.

If you have any additions to the agenda, please share them in the comments.

Next meeting will be on Thursday, April 20, 2023 10AM UTC

#matrix

Matrix chat Summary, March 23 2023

Welcome

@psrpinto led the chat on #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack.

The agenda — thanks to @ashfame, was mostly about Preserving SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. message history in the eventuality of a migrationMigration Moving the code, database and media files for a website site from one server to another. Most typically done when changing hosting companies. of the Make WordPress Slack workspace to Matrix:

  • What needs to be preserved / remain accessible?
  • In what way could you see accessing that?
  • How should we deal with private information?

For context on the topics discussed here, please see A Meta subproject for evaluating Matrix, where the project was announced.

Strategies for preserving Slack history

@psrpinto mentioned that there could be different strategies according to the type of channel (public, private, DM – since public and private information probably needs to be handled in different ways), and that we need to evaluate what format this message history would be kept in. There could be two options:

  1. Fully integrated into Matrix, with correct senders, timestamps, etc. It should be noted that it might not be possible
  2. A standalone export that would not be related to matrix in any way.

@javiercasares commented that private conversations should not be included in this archive, but we would instead notify users so they can perform the archival of their own private conversations. @javiercasares would prefer option 1. above, where the history of public conversations gets imported into the equivalent Matrix rooms.

@ashfame confirmed that we do not have access to users’ private conversations so users must export their own private conversations, and that migrating public channels is feasible, though somewhat complicated. Migrating private conversations however is more difficult, because of two reasons:

  1. Even if the user supplies the data they exported themselves, we can’t simply import it, as data would have to be encrypted and those messages need to come from sender’s or author’s session. It can’t just be attributed to them.
  2. The actual export itself requires granting access to an OAuth app, which theoretically means the app/code has access to the conversations. Would open-sourcing the code for that be enough?

Slack export

@akirk mentions an existing tool for archiving Slack data: https://github.com/felixrieseberg/slack-archive, which allows a user to export their own data, but they would need to run npx / node locally which is quite a high requirement.

@ashfame mentions that this tool requires granting access to an OAuth app to generate a token, personal tokens won’t work. This means the code running has theoretical access to sensitive data, so this tool might not be an option.

@akirk suggested that we look into exporting the public Slack data into a database and we can later investigate if we can re-insert it into Matrix. and for private data we try to figure out if people can run it locally on their machines and we’d strive to provide a guide for doing so.

@dd32 mentioned the following:

FWIW We’ve had several attempts at making a public slack log on W.org, but each time someone has looked into doing it, there’s been limitations in the Slack APIs around making it an “exact copy” of the data.

For example, reactions to messages are easy to get retroactively, but syncing them as they happen is difficult. Slack attachments are also heavily used by notifications, and would’ve needed rebuilding into a non-slack UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing..

It might be nice to integrate that with Matrix early on, as in, make sure we have a public Matrix chat log for referencing on make sites / etc. The slack data could then be added to the history of that public log, negating the need to migrate it over to Matrix.

Public slack data is exportable with Slack archive tools though by slack admins, but we do NOT have the private-conversations flag enabled (and won’t be enabling it) so Slack admins and APIs don’t have access to private conversations.

DMs are heavily used on this slack instance, to the level that I believe it accounts for between 50-80% of messages sent depending on the day. Private channels account for 1-2% as we don’t actually have many of them.
I believe the DMs however are likely bot-messages, because it’s flipped for those reading messages, ~20% of messages are read in DMs, and 75%+ are read in public channels..… The more I say this, I kind of want to find out why so many DMs are sent but not read…

Search UXUX UX is an acronym for User Experience - the way the user uses the UI. Think ‘what they are doing’ and less about how they do it.

@akirk enquired about how good the search capabilities on Matrix are today, and whether an external export would provide better searchability.

@psrpinto mentioned that in their experience the search on Matrix is appropriate, though not as good as Slack’s, and that it’s fair to assume it will continue to get better with time. They also mentioned there are some limitations when searching encrypted rooms, for example, searching encrypted rooms in Element only works in the Desktop App, not in the browser.

Open floor

@alexstine raised concerns about AccessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility) on Matrix:

Slack is well supported and accessible to a very wide audience. Something that is not up for argument, a lot of these open-source/decentralized concepts are not accessible to all or most.

The decentralized media world walks a fine line between a great thing and a lot of hypocrisy. On one hand, claiming to give users a voice, on the other hand, knowingly excluding users of assistive tech.

Years of GitHubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/ issues do not lie. Matrix has not been around all that long but there are plenty of other examples that have been around long enough…The Slack accessibility team is best in its class. They are constantly responsive and very engaged with users.

@otto raised concerns about the quality of Matrix clients:

Matrix looks like IRC, for me, so far. I am unimpressed with it. It seems like it will need a lot of interface work to make it usable.

Next meeting

The next meeting will be held on #meta channel of the Make WordPress Slack on Thursday April 6th at 9am UTC.

#matrix

Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, March 23, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, March 23, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

This would be our third community meeting, and our agenda for our chat is as follows:

  • Welcome
  • Preserving Slack message history if we migrated:
    • What needs to be preserved / remain accessible?
    • In what could you see accessing that?
    • How should we deal with private information?
  • Open floor
  • Next meeting will be on Thursday, April 6, 2023 10AM UTC

If you have any additions to the agenda, please share them in the comments.

#matrix

Agenda: Biweekly Matrix Chat – Thu, March 9, 2023 (10AM UTC)

This meeting will be held at Thursday, March 9, 2023 10AM UTC in the #meta slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. channel in the Making WordPress Slack.

This would be our second community meeting, and our agenda for our chat is as follows:

  • Welcome
  • Showcasing Matrix client embedded on a page. Update You can try this at https://make.wordpress.org/meta/chat/
  • Help onboard community members live
  • Open floor
  • Next meeting will be on Thursday, March 23, 2023 10AM UTC

If you have any additions to the agenda, please share them in the comments.

#matrix