Performance Chat Summary: 6 August 2024

Meeting agenda here and the full chat log is available beginning here on Slack.

Announcements

Priority Items

  • WordPress performance TracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. tickets
    • Current release (6.7)
    • Future releases
  • Performance Lab pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party (and other performance plugins)
  • Active priority projects

WordPress Performance Trac Tickets

Performance Lab Plugin (and other Performance Plugins)

  • @mukesh27 has been working on the following
    • Modern Image Formats plugin:
    • PR #1408 – Picture element: Correct the fallback image – Ready for review
    • PR #1437 – Picture element: Full size image is missing in PICTURE > SOURCE srcset (Blocked by above PR 1408)
    • Issue #1439 – Picture element: Small image size issues – Open for discussion
  • @thelovekesh PR for web worker offloading plugin is merged – https://github.com/WordPress/performance/pull/1247
    • @westonruter this has not yet been added to wp.org as ideally it would first have some built-in feature to offload a frontend script to the worker. Like offloading gtag. The challenge is that there is no consistent way that other plugins add gtag to the page. However, the output buffer and/or tagtag A directory in Subversion. WordPress uses tags to store a single snapshot of a version (3.6, 3.6.1, etc.), the common convention of tags in version control systems. (Not to be confused with post tags.) visitor infrastructure provided Optimization Detective could be used to rewrite external gtag scripts to use Partytown. This would be another nice cross-plugin integration in Performance Lab, as is also seen in Embed Optimizer and Enhanced Responsive Images.
    • @joemcgill Is there a simple example use case that could be used to demo the APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. that developers would need to use to offload their own scripts using this plugin? Maybe a coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. that adds some non-critical JSJS JavaScript, a web scripting language typically executed in the browser. Often used for advanced user interfaces and behaviors.?
    • @westonruter Yes, it is in the readme, or at least in the PR description. The readme’s instructions should be fleshed out with the same content as the PR description
    • @adamsilverstein We could also document how to leverage with some of the top plugins eg analytics plugins
    • @westonruter Yeah. We could look at how the most popular plugins are adding gtag to the page (e.g. Site Kit), and specifically target them.
  • @westonruter There are quite a few bugs for Modern Image Formats, some of which are listed above, so let’s investigate that
    • Otherwise, Modern Image Formats seems like it needs the most attention as of now, given it seems to have the most bugs and support topics.

Active Priority Projects

Improving the calculation of image size attributes

  • @joemcgill advised that he and @mukesh27 have discussed creating a ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. to propose adding auto-sizes to core

Plugin Check

Open Floor

  • There were 2 tickets we wanted to discuss today
    • #42743
      • @pbearne I have been trying to find a good way to Disable wp_options autoload for inactive widgets. Any suggestions are welcome
      • We can turn it off if wp_use_widgets_block_editor() returns false
        but with the widgets_block_editor code, the inactive widgets are kept with the active
    • #60414
      • @joemcgill This came up during Dev Chat last week as well. For this to move forward it really needs at least one committercommitter A developer with commit access. WordPress has five lead developers and four permanent core developers with commit access. Additionally, the project usually has a few guest or component committers - a developer receiving commit access, generally for a single release cycle (sometimes renewed) and/or for a specific component. (likely several) to shepherd it into trunktrunk A directory in Subversion containing the latest development code in preparation for the next major release cycle. If you are running "trunk", then you are on the latest revision., which includes helping build consensus about any open questions that still need to be resolved.
      • From a Performance Team point of view, we’ve not prioritized it on our roadmap because the performance benefit is theoretical at this point. If someone could show the likely performance benefit of these changes, then it would be worth putting more effort into. As an aside, I do really think WP should implement this personally, but don’t have time myself to take this on.
  • @joemcgill If we have time, I wanted to ask if we want to have a Performance Team specific table at WCUS this year? I assume yes, but wanted to confirm before letting the organizing team know.
  • @joemcgill will be leading this meeting next week

Our next chat will be held on Tuesday, August 13, 2024 at 15:00 UTC in the #core-performance channel in Slack.

#core-performance, #performance, #performance-chat, #summary

Developer Blog editorial meeting summary 1 August 2024

Summary of the WordPress Developer Blogblog (versus network, site) meeting, which took place in the  #core-dev-blog channel on the Make WordPress SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/.. Start of the meeting in Slack.

Attendees: @milana_cap, @oglekler, @ironnysh (async), @bcworkz (async) and @bph (facilitator).

Last meeting notes: Developer Blog editorial meeting summary 4 July 2024

Newly published post since the last meeting: 

Since the last meeting, we published the following articles

Huge Thank You to the writer and reviewers! 

Project Status

The project board for Developer Blog content is on GitHubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/.

In review

In Progress:

Post on the To-do-list, assigned to writers.

Topics, approved, in need of a writer

If you are interested in taking on a topic from this list or know someone who would be a good person to write about them, comment on the Issue or pingPing The act of sending a very small amount of data to an end point. Ping is used in computer science to illicit a response from a target server to test it’s connection. Ping is also a term used by Slack users to @ someone or send them a direct message (DM). Users might say something along the lines of “Ping me when the meeting starts.” @bph in Slack either in the #core-dev-blog channel or in a DM.

New Topics approved

The latter is part of the roll-out of video content type for the Developer Blog, proposed and approved during a meeting on July 4th, 2024: “The next step is that Ryan will submit an overview of all directives of the Interactivity APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. and provide an example of the first video. It will also be the test drive of the suggested process from which we can iterate afterward.

Next meeting: September 5, 2024, at 13:00 UTC in the #core-dev-blog channel

Props to @oglekler for the review of the post.

#meeting, #meta, #summary

Summary, Dev Chat, July 31, 2024

Start of the meeting in SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/., facilitated by @mikachan. 🔗 Agenda post.

Announcements

There were no announcements this week.

Forthcoming Releases

Next minor releaseMinor Release A set of releases or versions having the same minor version number may be collectively referred to as .x , for example version 5.2.x to refer to versions 5.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.3, and all other versions in the 5.2 (five dot two) branch of that software. Minor Releases often make improvements to existing features and functionality.: 6.6.2

@hellofromtonya confirmed the status of 6.6.2:

  • No schedule yet for it.
  • @hellofromtonya and @jorbin suggested tentatively scheduling a regular maintenance release for late August unless something critical requires that schedule to change.

Next major releasemajor release A release, identified by the first two numbers (3.6), which is the focus of a full release cycle and feature development. WordPress uses decimaling count for major release versions, so 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, and 3.1 are sequential and comparable in scope.: 6.7

We are currently in the WordPress 6.7 release cycle. WordPress 6.7 BetaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. 1 is scheduled for Tuesday, October 1.

@jorbin asked what timeframe we want to consider early for the purposes of the TracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. keyword. There was no consensus in the meeting, but this provides an opportunity to improve our documentation to avoid confusion about what this keyword means. @joemcgill offered to review if someone wants to attempt to improve the docs about the early keyword in our handbook.

@mikachan reported that she checked in with @priethor about an update on the release squad for 6.7 and expects to have an update sometime next week.

Discussion

@mikachan led with this update:

I’d like to note that WordCamp US is coming up on September 17–20, and @Courtney has begun requesting table leads from all the Make teams for Contributor DayContributor Day Contributor Days are standalone days, frequently held before or after WordCamps but they can also happen at any time. They are events where people get together to work on various areas of https://make.wordpress.org/ There are many teams that people can participate in, each with a different focus. https://2017.us.wordcamp.org/contributor-day/ https://make.wordpress.org/support/handbook/getting-started/getting-started-at-a-contributor-day/.. Please let her know if you’re interested in leading a table for the CoreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. team, and feel free to ask questions in #core.

Open Floor

@nikunj8866 raised two issues for discussion:

  • #40477
    • @joemcgill suggested that this could use a review from a REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. maintainer
    • @hellofromtonya identified the need for an owner and automated tests
    • @spacedmonkey offered to take a look
  • #13459
    • @jorbin suggests that it needs automated tests

@spacedmonkey raised a question about #60414:

What defines “ready to commit” for this ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. and tickets of this size? What are the next steps to get a ticket like this merged into core? How many core committers need to sign off on it? Can it be committed in WP 6.7?

This question was previously raised and discussed in this #core-committers conversation in Slack and summarized by @hellofromtonya in this Trac comment.

@jorbin identified the biggest thing needed to move this forward is having multiple committers who are willing to drive consensus and finalize the implementation before it is committed. @hellofromtonya shared these three proposed steps that @jorbin had previously shared in the Slack conversation:

  1. Getting the patchpatch A special text file that describes changes to code, by identifying the files and lines which are added, removed, and altered. It may also be referred to as a diff. A patch can be applied to a codebase for testing. on a dotorg sandbox and making sure it doesn’t blow up .org.
  2. Getting this on a large host so we can see how it performs in the myriad conditions core runs
  3. Making sure that wp-cliWP-CLI WP-CLI is the Command Line Interface for WordPress, used to do administrative and development tasks in a programmatic way. The project page is http://wp-cli.org/ https://make.wordpress.org/cli/ doesn’t break

Additional conversation about the proposal ended with @mikachan suggesting that a good next step might be an updated post for make/core, since there are still many questions to resolve.

Note: Anyone reading this summary outside of the meeting, please drop a comment in the post summary, if you can/want to help with something.

Props to @mikachan for proofreading.

#6-7, #dev-chat, #summary

Summary, Dev Chat, July 24, 2024

Start of the meeting in SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/., facilitated by @hellofromtonya. 🔗 Agenda post.

Announcements

Congrats and thanks to everyone who contributed to these releases!

Forthcoming Releases

Next minor releaseMinor Release A set of releases or versions having the same minor version number may be collectively referred to as .x , for example version 5.2.x to refer to versions 5.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.3, and all other versions in the 5.2 (five dot two) branch of that software. Minor Releases often make improvements to existing features and functionality.: 6.6.2

@hellofromtonya confirmed the status of 6.6.2:

  • No schedule yet for it.
  • Some fixes have already been backported to the 6.6 branchbranch A directory in Subversion. WordPress uses branches to store the latest development code for each major release (3.9, 4.0, etc.). Branches are then updated with code for any minor releases of that branch. Sometimes, a major version of WordPress and its minor versions are collectively referred to as a "branch", such as "the 4.0 branch"..
  • Currently reviewing fixes in the milestone.

Next major releasemajor release A release, identified by the first two numbers (3.6), which is the focus of a full release cycle and feature development. WordPress uses decimaling count for major release versions, so 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, and 3.1 are sequential and comparable in scope.: 6.7

We are currently in the WordPress 6.7 release cycle. WordPress 6.7 BetaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. 1 is scheduled for Tuesday, October 1.

The 6.7 release squad is still TBD, and there will likely be an update posted soon.

@davidbaumwald asked some good questions about the combining of the MarComms role into the Release Coordinator role for 6.7. During the chat, we discussed that combining the roles could limit who might raise their hands in future releases. Please leave any further thoughts on the call for volunteers post.

Discussion

During discussion time, we talked about the proposal to move the dev chat’s time to an APAC friendly time during 6.7 cycle. There are 4 options presented and deadline for feedback is July 31. There doesn’t seem to be a clear solution, and we discussed a few questions, such as:

  • What if the 6.7 Release Coordinator is not in APAC? How does that affect the proposed times, if at all?
  • What if we share topics, concerns, questions, etc. in the Dev Chat agenda?

@clorith noted that anything that helps the 6.7 squad be efficient is ideal and that the goal behind the dev chat agendas being posted a minimum of 24 hours in advance gives folks who can’t attend a chance to raise topics.

Please share any further feedback on the proposal.

Note: Anyone reading this summary outside of the meeting, please drop a comment in the post summary, if you can/want to help with something.

Props to @joemcgill for proofreading.

#6-7, #core, #dev-chat, #summary

Performance Chat Summary: 30 July 2024

Meeting agenda here and the full chat log is available beginning here on Slack.

Announcements

Priority Items

  • WordPress performance TracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. tickets
    • Current release (6.7)
    • Future releases
  • Performance Lab pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party (and other performance plugins)
  • Active priority projects

WordPress Performance Trac Tickets

Performance Lab Plugin (and other Performance Plugins)

Active Priority Projects

Improving the calculation of image size attributes

  • @mukesh27 For Improving the calculation of image size attributes i have been working on:
    • PR #1382 – Update wp_calculate_image_sizes to Reflect Changes in sizes attribute
    • Issue #1389 – Accurate sizes improvement didn’t account for the disable filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. for sizes – Merged

Plugin Check

Open Floor

  • @adamsilverstein I have one update: my PR adding User Timing metrics for the Interactivity APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways. was approved and merged: https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/pull/60522 this is hidden behind a debug flag until the API is stable and also only available in the plugin for now

Our next chat will be held on Tuesday, August 6, 2024 at 15:00 UTC in the #core-performance channel in Slack.

#core-performance, #performance, #performance-chat, #summary

Performance Chat Summary: 23 July 2024

Meeting agenda here and the full chat log is available beginning here on Slack.

Announcements

Priority Items

  • WordPress performance TracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. tickets
    • Current release (6.7)
    • Future releases
  • Performance Lab pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party (and other performance plugins)
    • Enhanced Responsive Images
    • Embed Optimizer
    • Image Prioritizer
    • Image Placeholders
    • Modern Image Formats
    • Optimization Detective
    • Performant Translations
    • Speculative Loading
  • Active priority projects

WordPress Performance Trac Tickets

  • There are currently 16 performance issues in 6.7
  • @pbearne I need input on this ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. as I made opinionated changes as to which option should not be autoloaded #61103
    • @joemcgill I plan on digging into that PR to give you feedback, but am going to be out on holiday for a bit. If anyone else has time to look at this in the mean time, please do so.
    • @mukesh27 I will take a look this week
    • @joemcgill One thing that will be good to understand, is that if we aren’t autoloading options that are only needed in the adminadmin (and super admin), how do we make sure the editor experience isn’t negatively affected. I think you’re already planning on priming all of those options in the admin, but would be good to get some performance measurements of the before/after of both the front end and admin.
    • @pbearne I have a patchpatch A special text file that describes changes to code, by identifying the files and lines which are added, removed, and altered. It may also be referred to as a diff. A patch can be applied to a codebase for testing. to load the admin options in back on wp_int

Performance Lab Plugin (and other Performance Plugins)

  • @mukesh27 I have been working on PRs that ready for review:
    • Performance Lab plugin:
      • PR #1374 – Autoloaded Options Health Check: Disabled options reappear in Site Health after external update
    • Modern Image Formats plugin:
      • PR #1354 – Picture element: The accurate sizes improvement for images not working
  • @westonruter It seems like we’re getting increasing reports of issues with image generation in Modern Image Formats
    • In GitHub and support forums
    • @westonruter Might be related to the issue of AVIF generation taking a very long time sometimes?
    • @joemcgill Ah, I do remember cases a long time ago where image generation could take longer than the max PHPPHP The web scripting language in which WordPress is primarily architected. WordPress requires PHP 5.6.20 or higher timeout on some hosts and result in the attachment data being created in the DB while the actual image generation failed. I wonder if something like that is happening?
    • @westonruter That’s being discussed here: https://github.com/WordPress/performance/issues/371
    • @adamsilverstein this could also be a support detection issue, (where format support for AVIF gives a false negative or positive), interesting they say it falls back to WebP
    • @westonruter I wonder if the AVIF generation should be moved a background process? Use the JPEG immediately upon upload and then use the AVIF once it is available
    • @adamsilverstein we already have a way of generating images in multiple passes, but it needs to be able to process one image completely before the timeout
    • @joemcgill That’s a good idea. There is prior art for generating missing intermediate sizes that could be referenced.
    • @pbearne Idea: we need a long process control for wp-admin that can be used for any task that takes a long time (images gen, post delete, etc.)
    • @adamsilverstein https://github.com/WordPress/performance/issues/490 was part of that previous effort, there is also a trac ticket
    • @westonruter I thought that was primarily for regenerating the entire media library
    • @adamsilverstein yes, but part of that was the ability to regenerate images in i the background #6814 16 year old ticket
    • @joemcgill It’s not totally accurate anymore, after #40439
    • @adamsilverstein true, we partially solved the issue with that, as long as the user agent remains present to trigger the retries
    • @joemcgill I’ve played with using WP_Cron for this a looooooong time ago, but that can cause failures to affect end-user front-end requests, which we’d want to avoid

Active Priority Projects

Improving the calculation of image size attributes

  • @mukesh27 For Improving the calculation of image size attributes i have been working on:
    • PR #1382 – Update wp_calculate_image_sizes to Reflect Changes in sizes attribute
    • Issue #1389 – Accurate sizes improvement didn’t account for the disable filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. for sizes
    • @joemcgill I’m reviewing those this morning

Plugin Check

Open Floor

  • WordPress 6.6 performance analysis
    • @adamsilverstein Yes… I have been working on a post for 6.6 performance changes and will share a draft here for feedback soon!
    • one challenge has been identifying the source of the slight regressions we see in 6.6 (the numbers haven’t changed much since I shared results here for an RCrelease candidate One of the final stages in the version release cycle, this version signals the potential to be a final release to the public. Also see alpha (beta). a few weeks ago)
    • part of the challenges is tracking changes that originate in the GutenbergGutenberg The Gutenberg project is the new Editor Interface for WordPress. The editor improves the process and experience of creating new content, making writing rich content much simpler. It uses ‘blocks’ to add richness rather than shortcodes, custom HTML etc. https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/ project and are then merged over to coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress.. our automated tests haven’t highlighted issues, nor are the Gutenberg performance tests
    • some ideas: it might be because the regressions are very small and spread out over a number of commits, or it might be related to the difference in how we are doing automated tests. in case, it points to an area we can improve
    • @joemcgill Agreed. There are a number of improvements that we could make to our CI infrastructure in both the GB repo and in Core that would help. We’ve already got https://github.com/WordPress/performance/issues/1380 as a place to discuss a set of improvements we want to focus on next. I’d love to see more discussion there so we can define and prioritize some next steps.
    • One of the questions that I still have is whether the benchmarks that we have been taking at the end of each release are providing us with useful info, or if they are obscuring what is really happening in the field.  @adamsilverstein I’m curious if we could get some HTTPArchive data after 6.6 has been out a while to see if our lab benchmarks relate to real user data or not.
    • @adamsilverstein that is a good point, I’m happy to work on that. we should have enough data in a few months.
    • some performance improvements we are adding will really only become apparent in the field data, and our automated testing can’t really measure those

Our next chat will be held on Tuesday, July 30, 2024 at 15:00 UTC in the #core-performance channel in Slack.

#core-performance, #performance, #performance-chat, #summary

Summary, Dev Chat, July 17, 2024

Start of the meeting in SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/., facilitated by @joemcgill. 🔗 Agenda post.

Announcements

Congrats to everyone for these releases! 🎉

Forthcoming Releases

Next minor releaseMinor Release A set of releases or versions having the same minor version number may be collectively referred to as .x , for example version 5.2.x to refer to versions 5.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.3, and all other versions in the 5.2 (five dot two) branch of that software. Minor Releases often make improvements to existing features and functionality.: 6.6.1

WordPress 6.6.1 will be the first maintenance release following the 6.6 major releasemajor release A release, identified by the first two numbers (3.6), which is the focus of a full release cycle and feature development. WordPress uses decimaling count for major release versions, so 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, and 3.1 are sequential and comparable in scope.Here are the tickets currently set for that milestone.

During the chat, @hellofromtonya, @ellatrix, @jorbin, @audrasjb, and @marybaum all offered to help with the 6.6.x releases. Thank you! ❤️

@hellofromtonya stated the current status of 6.6.1:

  • There are multiple reports of CSSCSS Cascading Style Sheets. specificity issues – causing all links to be underlined. A fix is ready. A test pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is available. Have multiple test reports showing it fixes the issue with no side effects. But would be good to get more reports on affected sites.
  • 2 reports of fatal errors. One has a fix and the other is being investigated (I have a fix in mind).
  • Ella has been scrubbing in #core-editor.

@jorbin mentioned that there is also the $_old_files issue that is ready for a backportbackport A port is when code from one branch (or trunk) is merged into another branch or trunk. Some changes in WordPress point releases are the result of backporting code from trunk to the release branch. in this release.

We discussed that a good time to release 6.6.1 would be sometime next week, as none of the issues mentioned are security-related, and this also gives us time to make sure there aren’t any further high-impact bugs.

Next major release: 6.7

We are currently in the WordPress 6.7 release cycle. WordPress 6.7 BetaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. 1 is scheduled for Tuesday, October 1.

It looks as though there are still some members of the release squad that need to be confirmed from this post. @priethor mentioned that all the volunteers can be seen in the comments section of the call for volunteers post; nobody else volunteered via DM or similar.

@joemcgill followed up on a topic from last week, suggesting that for the 6.7 release, we move the time of these Dev Chats to a more APAC friendly-time since many of the release squad members in this release are located in that region and are unable to make these meetings.

I’ve followed up in #6-7-release-leads (reference) and there is interest in finding a more friendly time. Given the global nature of the project, there isn’t a perfect time that works for everyone to attend, so we’ll need to decide whether to move the time to later in the day (worse for folks in EMEA) or much earlier (worse for folks in the Americas). 

@joemcgill will follow up with a post to make/coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. about this.

Discussion

@afragen raised this ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. for 6.7: #53323. This places Hello Dolly in a containing folder to improve consistency with other plugins. Please leave any feedback directly on the ticket.

Note: Anyone reading this summary outside of the meeting, please drop a comment in the post summary, if you can/want to help with something.

Props to @joemcgill for proofreading.

#6-6, #6-7, #core, #dev-chat, #summary

Performance Chat Summary: 16 July 2024

Meeting agenda here and the full chat log is available beginning here on Slack.

Announcements

  • Welcome to our new members of #core-performance
  • Version 3.3.0 of Performance Lab pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party was released yesterday
  • WordPress 6.6 release happening today Tue Jul 16

Priority Items

  • WordPress performance TracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. tickets
    • Current release
    • Future release
  • Performance Lab plugin (and other performance plugins)
    • Enhanced Responsive Images
    • Embed Optimizer
    • Image Prioritizer
    • Image Placeholders
    • Modern Image Formats
    • Optimization Detective
    • Performant Translations
    • Speculative Loading
  • Active priority projects

WordPress Performance Trac Tickets

  • @joemcgill For visibility: on Friday, I reverted r58334 due to a late reported bugbug A bug is an error or unexpected result. Performance improvements, code optimization, and are considered enhancements, not defects. After feature freeze, only bugs are dealt with, with regressions (adverse changes from the previous version) being the highest priority. related to the caching global styles for blocks. This was done as part of #59595. I have a PR that I need to refresh that fixes the issue and reinstates the cache, which I hope to have included in 6.6.1.
  • There are currently 12 performance issues in 6.7 which will be reviewed in tomorrow’s bug scrub

Performance Lab Plugin (and other Performance Plugins)

  • @mukesh27 I have also opened an issue for the Picture element: The accurate sizes improvement for images not working #1349. The new changes from the Enhanced Responsive Images (formerly known as auto-sizes) plugin are not working
    • @westonruter let’s prioritize fixing those and push out short-cycle standalone releases
    • @mukesh27 confirmed it’s Modern Image formats plugin causing the bug and will share more details on issue

Active Priority Projects

Improving the calculation of image size attributes

  • @joemcgill now that we’ve released the first version of Auto-sizes Enhanced Responsive Images that includes those improvements, I think @mukesh27 and I will need to update the overview issue with the main goals for the next priority features. At the same time, we’ll continually iterate on issues that come up during testing.

Improved template loading

  • @joemcgill There were a couple of remaining tasks open on the Improved template loading epic, but at this point, we’ve accomplished the majority of what was originally planned and the remaining items really are iterative improvements to the WP_Theme_JSON system that really could be tracked as part of ongoing CoreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. work, or as a collaborative issue in the GutenbergGutenberg The Gutenberg project is the new Editor Interface for WordPress. The editor improves the process and experience of creating new content, making writing rich content much simpler. It uses ‘blocks’ to add richness rather than shortcodes, custom HTML etc. https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/ repo, so I’m going to close up the related tickets and close that issue.
  • This section will be dropped from the agenda moving forwards

Plugin Check

Open Floor

  • @swissspidy I opened a proposal a while ago for a new PL plugin: https://github.com/WordPress/performance/issues/1324 The idea is to take data collected by Optimization Detective and display them in a nice little dashboard. Not sure yet how useful that would be, but thought I’d share it 🙂
    • @joemcgill I love this idea and wonder if there is an opportunity to surface other kinds of performance data on that dashboard, like CWV scores if available, etc. Though I really like the different use cases we’re finding for the Optimization Detective APIAPI An API or Application Programming Interface is a software intermediary that allows programs to interact with each other and share data in limited, clearly defined ways.. “CWV scores if available” meaning from the CrUX API
      • @westonruter I suppose to compare with the CWV metrics from actual visitors as measured by Optimization Detective?
    • @westonruter Yeah, actually storing the CWV metrics in the URLURL A specific web address of a website or web page on the Internet, such as a website’s URL www.wordpress.org Metrics custom post typeCustom Post Type WordPress can hold and display many different types of content. A single item of such a content is generally called a post, although post is also a specific post type. Custom Post Types gives your site the ability to have templated posts, to simplify the concept. would be a key part of this. Currently we only store which element was the LCP, not what the LCP metric is.
    • @joemcgill Unless we’re collecting metrics from every visit, I think we’d need to somehow be clear about how those CWV metrics are representative of real users, and not a full picture.
    • @westonruter Yeah. It would be a sampling, for sure. But so is CrUX. Although surely CrUX sampling would be higher, assuming you get enough traffic to qualify
    • @joemcgill It is, but CrUX is a larger sample size than what we’re collecting with OD. The real value is that this would allow sites to get URL level data which can be more difficult for site owners to get from CrUX
    • @swissspidy There was also a proposal to use a separate storage mechanism (e.g. a custom table or CPT) that allows storing the data for more than 30 days
    • @swissspidy Precisely. And also without waiting for next month’s data to arrive etc. You could more quickly see the performance impact of changes made to the site.
    • @joemcgill Rather than making this a separate plugin, I really think we should consider adding this type of data to Performance Lab and integrate OD when available (or bundle the API into that plugin too). Now that all of our Performance features are unbundled into standalone plugins, I think there’s an opportunity for PL to add more value as a tool for collecting and surfacing performance metrics and opportunities for improvement to site owners.
  • @swissspidy Another quick update from my side: I had some very productive discussions with some Gutenberg folks about client-side media processing and they shared some valuable feedback about separation of concerns. I am currently refactoring my Media Experiments plugin based on that feedback, hoping to have something that can be merged into Gutenberg afterwards. The tracking issue on the Gutenberg repo is this one: https://github.com/WordPress/gutenberg/issues/61447

Our next chat will be held on Tuesday, July 23, 2024 at 15:00 UTC in the #core-performance channel in Slack.

#core-performance, #performance, #performance-chat, #summary

Summary, Dev Chat, July 10, 2024

Start of the meeting in SlackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/., facilitated by @joemcgill. 🔗 Agenda post.

Announcements

  • WordPress 6.6 RC3 was released on July 9. We are in a hard string freeze. Note that the dev-feedback and dev-reviewed workflow is required prior to committing to the 6.6 branchbranch A directory in Subversion. WordPress uses branches to store the latest development code for each major release (3.9, 4.0, etc.). Branches are then updated with code for any minor releases of that branch. Sometimes, a major version of WordPress and its minor versions are collectively referred to as a "branch", such as "the 4.0 branch". (handbook reference).

Forthcoming Releases

Next major releasemajor release A release, identified by the first two numbers (3.6), which is the focus of a full release cycle and feature development. WordPress uses decimaling count for major release versions, so 2.8, 2.9, 3.0, and 3.1 are sequential and comparable in scope.: 6.6

We are currently in the WordPress 6.6 release cycle. WordPress 6.6 is scheduled for Tuesday, July 16. There will be a dry run of the release on Monday, July 15 which starts a 24-hour code freeze of the 6.6 branch.

We’re getting very close to the end of the road for this release cycle, which is exciting! 🎉

Discussion

As we’re at the end of the 6.6 release cycle, we prioritized items for this release.

@marybaum raised a discussion around the coordination of the release post and suggested putting together a shared space where folx can collaborate on sections of the post with shared assets, possibly starting in Figma and then moving to a P2P2 A free theme for WordPress, known for front-end posting, used by WordPress for development updates and project management. See our main development blog and other workgroup blogs. post. This is a new process starting with the 6.6 release, based on our new combination of microsite and About page, but also begins a precedent for 6.7 and beyond.

@marybaum confirmed there are now three main deliverables coming out of that one pool of copy and assets: microsite, About page, and the release post.

@colorful-tones and @ryelle provided links to relevant tickets and issues: this ticket is the main tracking issue, there’s also this one specifically for the about page, and this one for the page on w.org.

@marybaum is going to reach out to others on the 6.6 release squad to help coordinate the above efforts.

@joemcgill highlighted the planning post and call for volunteers for 6.7. @peterwilsoncc also mentioned on the agenda post that the #6-7-release-leads room has already been spun up so folks can start prepping for the next cycle.

@hellofromtonya noted that all of the tech leads for 6.7 are in APAC. @hellofromtonya and @joemcgill suggested checking with them if attempting to move the Dev Chat and release party times would be helpful during this release. @joemcgill said they will reach out to some release squad members for input and possibly put this on a future dev chat agenda. @audrasjb mentioned we also should take into account MC/systems availability during the release cycle for release parties in APAC.

Following the above discussion, @peterwilsoncc mentioned that the main release party’s timing will need to remain unchanged for practical reasons (more contributors available to test) but it would be good to do a few of the betaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process. releases in APAC. He also doesn’t think any of the tech leads have the level of MC access required to release packages so that would probably need to be organised.

Note: Anyone reading this summary outside of the meeting, please drop a comment in the post summary, if you can/want to help with something.

Props to @joemcgill for proofreading.

#6-6, #core, #dev-chat, #summary

Recap Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates

On July 8th, 2024, contributors attended the Hallway Hangout: Section styles and other block style variation updates.

Attendees chatted about cool new features and handy tips for styling sections in WordPress 6.6. They also swapped stories and ideas on how to handle theme styles with section styles. The group shared their experiences and brainstormed ways to make pattern management and theme building in GutenbergGutenberg The Gutenberg project is the new Editor Interface for WordPress. The editor improves the process and experience of creating new content, making writing rich content much simpler. It uses ‘blocks’ to add richness rather than shortcodes, custom HTML etc. https://wordpress.org/gutenberg/ better. They stressed the need for smoother workflows, more user-friendly options, and greater efficiency, touching on challenges like tweaking blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. styles and setting default ones. They also tossed around some possible solutions, like breaking down partial files, registering block style variations, and using a JSONJSON JSON, or JavaScript Object Notation, is a minimal, readable format for structuring data. It is used primarily to transmit data between a server and web application, as an alternative to XML. file to nail down styles for default block variations.

Default Style selection

There was also a discussion about the need to be able to set a block style as the default for the content creator, so every time a particular block is added to the canvas the block style is applied automatically. This will help with curation efforts, and streamline’s content creation workflows. 

Interface overload for users

One challenge immediately clear to attendees was that the interface becomes heavily overloaded for users. How do you avoid having all the section styles on every group block? 

Currently, the block style variations that power the section styles are limited by the same constraints in theme.json. So they can only be assigned to a block type. Ideas discussed: 

  • Section / Block Style variations need more granular control to identify context. For instance, a headerHeader The header of your site is typically the first thing people will experience. The masthead or header art located across the top of your page is part of the look and feel of your website. It can influence a visitor’s opinion about your content and you/ your organization’s brand. It may also look different on different screen sizes. or an archive style would still show up in the editor for general group styles, or other container style blocks. They are not needed except in certain situations.  
  • There could be style variations that are hidden from the interface.
  • Use of a filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. similar to `blockEditor.useSetting.before` that allows you to conditionally display block supports based on context.

Discovery issue when using style variations to style patterns 

Another feature requestfeature request A feature request should generally begin the process in the ideas forum, on a mailing list, as a plugin, or brought to the attention of the core team, such as through scope meetings held for each major release. Unsolicited tickets of this variety are typically, therefore, discouraged. was to combine style variations with patterns. Instead of having a blue and a red pattern, create a section style but how would that surface for the user? And instead of editing the original patterns, change the style at a click of a button. 

One solution for this is to have only a few style variations that are aligned with the color palette of the site, so the buttons say blue, black, white, and gray. And then the user knows that they can apply a different color setting to the pattern and it would change predictably. The code example for such a system is on GitHub

This leaves the question of how a user would see the style variations when they add patterns, as there are no style variations preview.  

Watch the video for a more detailed discussion. Below you can also find a transcript of the recording.

Resources to learn more

Props to @greenshady for reviewing the post.

Transcript (via AI)

Computer, you are alright, so I’ll do the introductions again, just briefly. We are here to a hallway hang out on six and section styling and other block style variations. And, yeah, this is going to be, I’m handed over to Justin to kind of kick us off with some remarks and some , ideas, and questions. So in the chat, you can have your , just tell us where you’re from and , if you want to add the questions in the chat. But I think we have a small enough group that you just can unmute and ask your questions, that will be great. We also have here Aaron Robertshaw and Nick Diego and all the phenomenal block theme developers, so take it away. Justin,

All right. So hi everyone. Like usual, let’s try to make this a discussion where everyone can, you know, chime in with your questions, your issues you’ve already ran into. But the first thing I want to know, who has not tried out style, very section styles, or, like some updates to lot style variations in WordPress, 6.6 betaBeta A pre-release of software that is given out to a large group of users to trial under real conditions. Beta versions have gone through alpha testing in-house and are generally fairly close in look, feel and function to the final product; however, design changes often occur as part of the process.. Or we’re at the release candidaterelease candidate One of the final stages in the version release cycle, this version signals the potential to be a final release to the public. Also see alpha (beta)., yeah? Or is there anyone who hasn’t, yeah? So we’re all on the same okay? We have one person saying, I do all right, all right. So I think the best thing to do is maybe just do a really brief walkthrough of what we’re talking about. Just okay, we have a couple people who haven’t now, I think that’s the best thing to do. And all right, we do. I do have a blog post. We also have a developer hours where we covered some of this. If we can link those in the chat, someone and Okay, so section styles. This is what we’re saying. This is the new feature, kind of in WordPress, 6.62 style, like an entire section of content. In reality, it’s not much of a new feature as it is an extension of the existing block style variations system. So if you just look at my screen, you see I have, like, this big green, greenish background, green, blue, teal, whatever color that is. And you’ll notice, like, there’s it’s got white colors. And if I just scroll down my page, there’s a whole different color, you know, with a different green and, you know, different and if I keep scrolling, there’s a whole nother section. That’s kind of why it would like text. And if you also notice, like in some of these sections, like my button, colors change depending on what section you’re looking at, and anything nested within the section styles can be you can customize the style of those things too. So what we’re really talking about and with section styles is we’re just talking about the ability to style things in an entire section and the things that are nested within it, whether that’s elements or blocks, and they appear in the UIUI User interface, just like any other block style variation. So if we quickly look, I can switch to style two, style three, which is not a whole lot different in this thing, but style four is very different. So and if you kind of watch closer, you’ll see like the colors of the buttons and other things may change depending on the style. So we’re we were very much styling nested things and oh, I have zooms in my way on my screen. I’m trying to click. There we go. And these can also be created within your styles folder, your theme. I’ve actually organized these into like style slash block. And this is, for example, section one, and that works just like a theme JSON. There’s a few extra things. You can set multiple block types, and you can set both the title and a slug the slogan. Block types are very new. And then you have your your normal styles property, which you can add css. You can add colors, spacing elements, and you can go down, scrolled a little fast. You can like, specifically target, like a block. How can this case, post title? You cannot add. Settings, which is a question that came up this morning, but you can add styles. So there several other ways that are outlined in the article on how we can, you know, work with the this new system. Like you can still register VHP via php. You can even past, like a themes JSON, like object and PHPPHP The web scripting language in which WordPress is primarily architected. WordPress requires PHP 5.6.20 or higher. So where we, uh, I feel like that’s just like the really quick, uh, overview of what we’re talking about. Like I said, I want to make sure this is very much a discussion now, of like, What problems have you had? Or what it what have you, especially if you’ve been using this so far,

I have a question to just prompt discussion. Okay, as you’ve been building these, it looks like you’ve, you’ve kind of kept to color for the most part. Are there any kind of heuristics that you when you’re building section styles that you’d like to follow? You know, is it, you know, there’s certain types of styles that you like applying and using in Section styles? Yeah.

Um, so I actually have several examples. The ones I show were primarily color. I think that’s the most the best use case, because color I’m trying to that that tends to be the best use case. Let me look at some other examples where I have run into trouble. So this is, like a grid layout. It’s got pricing cards. This actually has, if you don’t know, this is one section style on the outside. This is one section style for each of these cards. And then there’s one section style for this, like background like this, like where the price is on the card here. Like there’s an entire other section style. But one of the things I ran into is some some of these, like, I have this border on this. I don’t like the border in all situations. So then I start thinking, Should I add, you know, so should my section style to automatically output a border, I don’t know, because it works in some situations. It doesn’t in others. In this case, I kind of cheated a little bit and just added I have a custom CSSCSS Cascading Style Sheets. class has global border that I can, you know, remove. I don’t, I haven’t figured that out. But yes, color is the primary thing I’m using them for. I think that works well across depending on how they’re used. But yeah, so there are situations where I don’t want that border. That’s just a problem I’ve run into and trying to solve that means having to go back from using, you know, a section style, to either using a custom class or actually using, you know, the border controls. My goal is to not ever have to touch these design tools at all. I don’t, I don’t think this. I know. I think it’s okay for users to touch that, but as a theme, we’re talking theme development here. I, I would, I would try to avoid using inline styles at all. There are some situations where you need to, like, I think padding, spacing, things like that are mostly okay, because those are not going to change. Like, for example, I have this screen card here, and I want to, I’m actually looking at the wrong I don’t click on the wrong thing. And so if I change this entire card style, like, my spacing is not going to change, right? I don’t need it to change, because this is one layout. So I think it’s okay to like style this card and like, if you wanted to come in and add, you know, whatever spacing on certain sections. And I think your fonts are usually okay. There may be situations where you want to style fonts for specific section styles, and I’ve done that as well. I think I have an example if we look so I use section styles also for things like my, I have a new mouse I’m using, so I’m I can scroll really fast, sorry. Like this is a section style, this little post byline here, or you might call it post metaMeta Meta is a term that refers to the inside workings of a group. For us, this is the team that works on internal WordPress sites like WordCamp Central and Make WordPress., or Dateline or something in your theme. So. The thing is that I don’t really care so much about colors. I care more about fonts. And there are situations where I will style, you know, nested, nested blocks for that. So this is using my meta style. I’d use that for comment like in the comment as well, for like the Comment author, but not in this particular theme. I don’t have it, but, and one I have where I have styled the like the specific author block. I think the use there’s just so many, there are so many use cases to cover. You can literally do anything you want to. And that’s kind of a double edged sword. What, what should you do and what you should not do? I would start with this new feature, starting with colors, just seeing what you can do, like with a background color and a foreground color or text color, and seeing how that affects, you know, other elements. So if we go back and look at section one for my theme, at least. So I started here. I started with, you know, custom background, custom color text. I also have some spacing that I can probably remove now. But then I thought, Oh, my captions in my main theme JSON are styled differently. Oh, I need to, like, I just use current color. And I’ve done that a lot, but there are situations you need to make sure to test everything, like, test your captions, test your citations, headings, of course, test your links and what their color should be. And then you’ll want to test blocks so it can get complicated very fast, just with colors alone. And so that’s when I say, start there, and then, like, make adjustments based on what your specific project needs. Alright. Would we have anything going on the chat or we have questions? Oh, what Justin said? Let’s see from Brian.

Well, I have a question. So when you go back and to one of the other ones, I see kind of six or seven or eight different styles in there. Are there really all different styles? Do you? Did you just kind of put them all in the style variations, and they’ll they’re all for all blocks or, or they’re all three container blocks, or, okay, also for others, yes,

so that’s a good question. In this situation. What you see on the group here? These are almost all what I would consider section styles. They are on container type blocks, like I have a I have them on a few I know some people probably wouldn’t recommend putting them on the query block, but generally on Container blocks, like, you know, group column, you know, columns, maybe media and text for Section styles and so all of these are for those sorts of block, container type blocks. And I’ve been trying to cut back. It would be nice for the theme I’m building. I’ve also been building previous to this feature. So I’m also, you see a lot of these. There’s probably some situations where I can get rid of some of these, and I have gotten rid of some. Like, I have one just for selling, like, the archive page header, like, so if you click on Justin Tadlock, you know, this is a style, but theoretically, I could probably just make that like, you know, this style too, which is very similar, you know, this got the same gray, you know, that’s one thing I could do. But I could also leave them separately. If I wanted to style them separately. That’s a project level decision. But I also think to really take advantage of this for like, from a UXUX User experience user perspective, it would probably help to cut back as much as you can on like these options, I feel like this, like, what is this? 12345, 10 options, that’s quite a bit, that’s a little bit of a choice overload.

Yeah, yeah.

I think Carolina has a similar question. So there’s, how do you avoid having all the section styles on every pro block?

And, yeah,

yeah, that’s my like, I wish I could have, I don’t know how to avoid that be I wish I could, like, remove this archive header, remove the site footer and site header, because they’re not needed, except for in very specific situations. And the reason I have those. Are because there’s no other mechanism and coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. to style these, these, like these, pretty common sections and themes through theme JSON, other than, you know, maybe like some custom properties or stuff like block style variations are the best way to style those, those sections that are kind of one offs, like archive, header, site footer, site header. There’s a very much one off things. They don’t really need to be style variations, but there’s no I haven’t found a more ideal way of styling them without custom CSS and so on.

I just had an idea, yeah, because you know how with like patterns, you can do like inserter false or inserter hidden, so you can have a pattern that’s like part of the theme, but not represented in the UI. One of the things that I’ve done a ton with block styles is basically create the class. And this is not, this is not with section styles. This is just being CSS. Basically have, like, hidden, quote, unquote block styles that are only handled by the the style by the the class. Maybe it’s a terrible idea, but it’d be interesting if you could do a block or section style, or block style variation that was, like, hidden from the UI. So, like, the class could still be added, you could still register and theme by JSON, not theme of JSON, but in a JSON file, but it was just hidden from the UI. That’d be kind of interesting.

Yeah, I love it. We need a ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. right now. So, yeah, I mean, I have use cases for that sort of thing. And I mean, we’re seeing those use cases that work, and, you know, in real time here, like the archive header and like my site footer, like, say, site footer on this theme is like, got this grayish, you know? And I want that. I also want users to be able to style that, like, just change it to you if they want. So I don’t know I would like this for that. So let’s, let’s make a note of that for we need a ticket on maybe hidden blocks. Or, you know, it doesn’t necessarily need to be hidden block style variations. At least, needs to be some way to style things custom through theme, like a theme JSON, or, you know, that similar mechanism for whether that’s hidden or or just some other like, you know, property Within theme JSON or something. Yeah, great idea. Nick, I Yes, all right, looking at the chat a little bit, but yeah, use the hidden classes. Works already, and that does, yeah, you can use hidden classes. And I do a little bit of that, trying to think like I will add, one thing I do is, like custom properties, you know, under in theme J sign, you can add, like, I even have things handling, like custom elements, because, you know, core doesn’t, you know, I can’t style inline code, you know, through theme JSON, so I can do that. And that creates a, you know, custom class. And I could show you the custom class really quickly, so base elements, so scroll up and look for my code section. So in that creates, like these custom classes. I mean custom properties, I mean, and you could do that with class custom classes as well, so that, you know, all of these are generating the, you know, custom properties that are used in mycs style sheet. That’s kind of like a one way to get around some of those limitations. And I could very well do that with like, the archive header and site header and so on. And I have, and I’ve done those that way, until I moved them over to like, the like we have the section styles now. So I’ve moved like archive, archive header, site footer and site header over to this newer system, if that makes sense to everyone. All right,

so Aaron also mentioned that there is has been some discussion on defining a scope property in the theme JSON parcels that might allow filtering the context of the section styles, and I think that will be a really good, standardized way. But Erin, would you have by any chance the GitHubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/ discussion for that?

I would need to go digging for that one. Yeah. I. Can,

I think it was just hoping that you maybe have it just in front of you so

but what I can share there was the the general thinking was that to bring it in line with, like our templates and patterns, etc, that we could just sort of indicate more generally the context that a variation might actually apply. So it’s not a complete, powerful filtering mechanism, but it would be the next step or the next iteration, to build upon this feature,

to dovetail on that briefly, we do have the filter I’m putting in the chat. We do have the filter used for other things that allows you to, like, conditionally display block supports based on context. Like, you could have a button block that only shows specific color palette went inside of a group, or something like that. That’d be kind of cool. Like, if you had, like, if you knew that a group was inside of a cover block, that group would only have a certain set of blue section styles or whatever, using the context of based on where that block was, just as some prior art sharing that of a filter, but that’d be cool.

Yeah? Brian Gardner, what do you have?

Oh, that’s a loaded question,

yeah. Why did you raise your hand

so that I can personally ask Aaron to make sure that slashing thing can get pushed into RCrelease candidate One of the final stages in the version release cycle, this version signals the potential to be a final release to the public. Also see alpha (beta). three. No, my encouragement, based on the way, more hours than I probably should have spent working on this, and several conversations with people who are even present on this call, is that Inception can happen very quickly with this, and that the at least, for me, from a product perspective, I’m trying to, like, narrow the scope at the beginning and just use it for one sort of application. Because you could just open this up and, like, you know, have a section style for this and the color stuff, like, all of a sudden it gets really confusing fast. And so for those who are exploring, I would just say to temper, like, the scope of your initial use of it until two things, one, you understand it better, but also more things get developed, and there’s more sort of support beyond just the 6.6 release, because there’s more coming from what I understand in terms of, you know, creating possible GUIs for like, editing the content of These styles through the dashboard, versus like code. So, yeah,

it’s a good point. Yes, so before Carolina, there’s also Tammy had the suggestion, so just bring them up to parity with patterns. I think Could you elaborate on that a bit

that was relating to when Nick was saying about the ability to hide and stuff. I was way, way ago, so I think Carolina’s probably in this time frame, rather than in the back show. Yeah,

sorry, I didn’t get to all right? Karina, so

this is a more of a wish list item. I would like to be able to quickly change my patterns, instead of having one red and one blue pattern, whether they’re synced or not, actually going to have to be synced the very day. And I would just click the button instead of going into having to edit the original pattern, for example, to change the colors in two or three locations. So it’s not only about checking whether this style is on a group, it’s inside a cover block. I want my whole section to be complete in a pattern, bottom part, but patterns first.

Yeah, Brian, you said you could speak to that.

Yeah. So thankfully, the Fourth of July holiday has afforded me some days to play with this. So I have updated my powder theme to essentially powder has always shipped with two different versions of patterns, white on black, black on white. So it’s made it very easy to work within a design system, to just wrap every pattern in a group. And my goal, even though I still may not do this, my goal, was to half the number of patterns and just basically apply section one, two or three to the pattern, and it would control it top to bottom. I don’t love the I love the simplicity of shipping half the code. But what I don’t like is that users don’t see that inside of like the pattern explorer, so there’s no way to show like every pattern I’ve got created, headers, footers, call to actions could essentially be four different flavors, right? White, black, gray and purple. I can insert a pattern and in one button, just as the video I showed, just change the whole pattern into the way I wanted to. But the users don’t see that when they go to add the pattern into the thing. So there’s a little bit of an education that says, add the pattern and then change the color, as opposed to seeing four different colors of each version in the pattern. Explore. Or and the only way to do that is to ship four times the amount of code, which isn’t ideal, but it also, from the marketing perspective, might be more appealing. So you kind of have that, that wrestling. But I’ve, you know, wrap everything in a in a group, and I’ve limited all of my section styles to just the group block. Like, my intent is to just say, this is basically a pattern Color Changer. Like, I don’t you know what I mean. So, yeah,

yeah, I’ve seen some of Brian’s use cases too. So, yeah, yeah, I don’t like the idea of shipping patterns that are basically the same code with just like one little aspect change, and then it does cramp the UI a little bit. I think, yeah, we do need some workflows in core, like with around how like themers are using this feature. And we’ll get more feedback, I’m sure. So definitely open tickets, you know, Gutenberg tickets around, like, your ideas and stuff, so we can, you know, talk them through, and then I have other people come through. I think that’s this an implementation problem, but we can, but the more like Gutenberg itself and core can, like, take care of, help us out there to be with the great Carolina you’re back up.

This is more about the reflection on you source, not being able to see the style the preview. So when you when you’re in the editor, you have your style buttons. You hover over the button, the preview is not good enough. And I believe there’s a suggestion to even remove the preview, which I’m against, because this is also one of my my pet peeves. However, you say that in English, pet peeves text in the button is not enough, right? I can’t fit my description for the style name on my button, and I can’t name them, style one, style two, style three, because it’s not enough context. It doesn’t tell anyone what style one is, unless you really you add it and then you have to go in and do it or whatever, because the preview doesn’t work, and if you add it again, you have to do these extra steps. So I would really like to see that part improve.

Yeah, plus one, yeah. Yeah. So it’s actually my comments basically mirror what Carolina just mentioned. I think that the I’m interested in how users, once things like powder go out in the world, in the world, and other examples, whether like, even in the in the upcoming 2025, theme that might include this functionality, like how users reactReact React is a JavaScript library that makes it easy to reason about, construct, and maintain stateless and stateful user interfaces. https://reactjs.org/. to it, because it’s not that many themes use style variations, block style variations, like 2024, is a handful. Like, there’s like the asterisk for headings, and, you know, there’s like a list style. But like this concept of like, changing entire sections, changing the color of them from a user perspective, is very new. And so, like, the default is like, Okay, you go to the color, you change your background color, you change it, you know, you click through all the things and you update it that way. So I think this is a very new thing, not only from a theme development perspective, from a user perspective, and without improvements to the preview or the presentation of block styles. I’m curious how users are going to receive this and actually use it, and maybe things like powder, a great example. I think I like what Brian did with his naming convention, because the names are tied to the names of the colors in the color palette. So at least there’s a little bit of a mental model there where you can kind of tie, oh, oh, this is primary. Maybe that relates to color. Okay, you know. Okay, click primer. But I don’t like UI where it’s like, choose your own adventure. You just kind of are clicking things to figure out what they do. In the little experience that I have, like users are very reticent to click on something that they don’t know what’s going to change and so, and because these are such impactful changes, where you know, changing the visual esthetic of the entire section, new users might without having more context around what the button does, might be reticent to actually end up using the feature. So I think that there’s in future iterations and improvements to how block styles are visually displayed, I think would definitely go a long way in making the feature more user friendly. Yeah. So,

alright, yeah, agreed. Tammy,

yeah. For me, I think it, I don’t know if storybooks the answer or style, but storybook as but for me, it’s about stopping seeing it as a side panel that has things in, and start seeing it as theme design system. And because the problem of scaling of our interface, I go back to this problem is solved outside of WordPress in design systems. So if you want to see a different component and difference, it works in design systems. So it’s not a problem that hasn’t been solved outside our space, and it’s a language that has already been solved. So it’s about, probably, it definitely is about our interface changes, and it’s definitely about having a changing of the each component, and then talking like that, the theme component, and people knowing that they can change that each time. That is also part of that. I think, rather than seeing it at this side, I cheerfully would like both the preview and the block styles. I don’t think either those work for me. User Testing. I’ve seen so many people just I don’t think the previous solves it. I don’t think the buttons solve it. That whole thing be working. I honestly think it is more browse the styles as they are, pick them in a more like book format and design system, because that’s what has worked into time and more it. But I’m open to any hair brain schemes we want to have in between that. So yeah, but I do think it’s that like being able to see the thing and see it changing, and see that it’s got different changes. Could even just be that point one. See that it’s got like, four styles. You know, those little things like, this thing has four style changes. Boom. This thing has three style changes. Little, little things like that. We can start trying and see what people adapt to, I think, is really curious, but we start thinking more in the systems, and start being invested, like, the theme just ships with a couple of things, because that’s what we’re building, which I think is super fun.

Yeah, awesome. Do you want you want to go ahead and share Brian or,

yeah, if you all don’t mind, this is just more a demonstration of this, just in, like, the real world, because I know that, you know, Justin, you shared your kind of interpretation of it. And I think we’re all going to have different interpretations and executions. And I think sometimes seeing this in action actually, like, oh, okay, you know, because we could talk about it, we could read articles that show you how to do it. But I think until you connect those dots and see this in the real world, that’s why I wanted to share. So I’m just gonna that’s cool. So this is my theme, and using, I’m leveraging the tailwind color system inside of my theme. And so there’s 22 different variations, each one like that mirror up with the tailwind color. So I kind of am working within colors and shades, but in terms of the patterns themselves. So this sort of section is all wrapped in one group, and that group, as I click over here, has the base style. You can see it’s just basically the black on white. Now I have let me just do this really quick, but you can see, inside of every single variation. There’s there’s white, black, and then sort of three different shades of purple, and then what’s called a neutral. And so there’s corresponding, as Nick mentioned, I’ve created four different styles, one called base, which is what we see. And if you click contrast, then it just automatically knows how to change everything. And I’m using a lot of current color here. And then if you click on primary, then it becomes purple, and then neutral, and so on. Now to go a little more further, using kind of the button aspect of this, this is kind of similar where, if you click that, then the text changes to whites. But then you go here you can’t leave the button purple. So in this one, I change it to white, so you can start to see, hey, this is, you know, and then neutral is just like the lighter gray, so it’s very much like basin. So all my JSON files are very, very basic. Let me just, I’ll do this just for the sake of demons or not demonstrating, but, so I’ll drop this link after I’m done here. I don’t want to take up too much time, but this is basically the four different JSON files that are inside of powder. This is this has not shipped yet, so I’m waiting on 6.6 but the slugs are named 1234, so that the kind of aim towards a little bit of interoperability. But the UI part of it is for the user, right? Contrast, primary and neutral. So this is kind of just how I’ve chosen to at least explore it as it relates to the work that I’m doing.

Definitely, and I want to touch on it, because we talked about it a bit here as like naming. There is a ticket. There are two, as I mentioned earlier, there were two different like you seen in my demo. I had style one, style two, style three, and so I would not actually name those that way and like something that’s going to be in front of users. It would be something like what Brian has, base, contrast, primary, secondary, whatever your system is, but under the hood, the slug. So far, we’ve mostly agreed, I think, on like using section one, section two, section three. That way the this user can use, say, 2025 and then switch to your theme in those no matter what the title is, the slug is the same. And you know, they’ll be able to switch themes. Maybe we’ll straighten up some of the issues from the past with slugs and going forward, at least with, you know, these section of styles. But, yeah, don’t. Do not follow my example. Style one, style two, style three. I think that’s a horrible way to name things. That’s just for example. All right, anyone, like any issues folks running into so far, I have some I can share, but I want to hear from everyone else. Aaron,

this wasn’t so much an issue, but more perhaps a way of thinking. When you approach crafting your CSS, you’re not going to throw the kitchen sinkKitchen Sink When using the WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) editor in WordPress, you can expand the capabilities to allow more options. This expanded area is called the "Kitchen Sink." at a single class or start nesting it deeply and then try and reuse that over and over, or nesting those classes within other classes, because you get conflicts naturally. These variations and section styles are just a set of CSS classes and styles. So the same things you would try to avoid when handcrafting CSS, avoid those same pitfalls when you’re thinking about these and when you’re crafting these section styles, if you think of them from the perspective as that they can be nested within each other or themself, then that’ll start to jog or see the thoughts about what styles might conflictconflict A conflict occurs when a patch changes code that was modified after the patch was created. These patches are considered stale, and will require a refresh of the changes before it can be applied, or the conflicts will need to be resolved. and which ones you do need to consider, like links and buttons were mentioned before headings as well as another good example. So I just wanted to throw that out there, because I think that was sort of when I was crafting all of these test cases while implementing it that really helped, sort of just get things happening faster, and it became a lot smoother after that. So

I definitely agree keep those things in mind as you’re building them. Uh, Nick, yeah, I just had

this is kind of an open question. So because section styles are kind of a unique case of just block style variations, because they show up in the same UI, we run into the long standing issue of not being able to combine block style variations because they’re just CSS classes, right? And so I think that it poses an interesting situation where, if you are a theme developer, and you’ve already created style block, style variations for blocks, let’s say a group block. I think Brian, you had one that was shadow or something, and it adds, like, a unique style variation to the group block, and then you start implementing section styles, you start to get section styles feel like a very different thing than block style variations, even though they are kind of the same thing. So, and again, this is just something to I’ve had to think about, how do we handle that? You know, in future, WordPress releases an answer for it, but it is something that is interesting to think about. On that note. Real quick, I can jump in and I my daily pitch to get group blocks to support shadows. The only reason why I have that as a block style, so you have it as a block style, which means in the CSS, there’s a is style, dash, Shadow, or whatever the class is. Now, when it becomes an option, and I’ve already done this as well, when it becomes an actual option, when a block supports that, in other words, when group supports shadow, I will pull the UI part of that so users no longer. Get confused. I really don’t want to have like, a mixture of like, some like styles that do this one thing and then, like my four other ones. I really want to just protect that space just for those four, at least with the group block, and so I can pull that but if you leave the CSS class anybody who’s used it to date, and you could still actually use that class as well through, you know, additional CSS. So my hope is to, like, remove things, but also leave support for them, so anybody using them already to date, don’t all of a sudden, like, have that style gone and so. But I think these conversations where we talk about these things, and we do things like get on calls and pitch for group block shadows and have a bunch of people shake their heads and say, Yes, we should do that. Like, is helpful, because then those who are making those decisions or contributing that code realize that it’s an important thing for us to to ship so that we can, as users and distributors of, you know, products that are built on WordPress can get excited about and then make it a better user experience. So I like these calls, and I just Just one quick thing there. I just think that, like, yeah, we removed the shadow because you it will be in core eventually. But like, if you have, like, a really complicated block style that does stuff that theme dot JSON or JSON files just don’t support, like, you need custom CSS. You have a custom style, but you want to use that in conjunction with style variation. Block, style block, sorry, Section styles, you really can’t. And I think that there’s a good reason why you can’t, but I don’t know it, just it makes it the, at least the UI portion of it feel strange to me. So just something to think about in future iterations.

Yeah, I think to building, I mean, basically what Nick was saying, just said a little bit differently, is that we don’t have a way to create custom utility classes. We have, I mean, lot style variations I don’t really consider as like these smaller utility things that you can mix and match. We do have some utility things like, you know, custom, you know, font presets, spacing presets and so on. But we can’t add custom things, like, before shadow is there that we could not say. We could do something like Brian has done, like, you know, is style shadow, but we had to use the block style variation system to do that. I don’t think that’s to me that’s not always been the best use case, because there’s little one off things. You always end up wanting to mix them with other little one off things. And whereas I see like block style variations is more like you’re styling an entire component, um, instead of like a simple utility. So there’s like, two different use cases that people have used the things for, and they kind of compete. They don’t go well together, um, so, yeah, I’ve been anti like mixing, being able to choose multiple block style, block styles at once, just because it’s it’s going to able to break other use case, it would break some use cases, and it’d be great for for some so we were just kind of missing some system in court there. I feel like I don’t know what that might look like, concerns of UI and so on, but we do need, maybe we need, a new ticket that explores that. All right. Come on, folks of who tested any other things you’ve run into, tips, tricks or issues. All right, I can go back and share like something I think I touched on what Aaron was sharing.

I would want to ask Jessica, you have done a lot of explorations of the section styles and and you also are one of them. You have all your questions in the outreach channel. Did you get all your questions answered there? Or, because that’s very helpful to kind of put them asynchronous in the outreach channel. But I just want to make sure now that we have all the theme developers here. Did you get your questions answered satisfactorily?

Oh, what’s the point that? So yes, I get, got them answered, but like to the point of where I have to make a decision for the product, which is not to include them in a next update, and instead wait, because it will, it would be a bit troublesome for the backwards compatibility. So. So internally, we decided not to really push this forward yet, so probably maybe for in like half a year, or maybe a year, that would make sense. It’s but it has more to do with like this, bumping up the minimum requirement to 6.6 so you cannot ship any more updates to to your customers that are not, not specifically just for the 6.6 updates. So yeah, so that’s where I also like cut off the testing at this point, because, mean, there’s no much, not a good use case right now for an existing product with a user base pushing this forward at the spot.

And the reason is because all the section signs on a theme version, a theme JSON version three, that only comes with WordPress 6.6 and lower versions WordPress 6.5 and so on. They are not having those theme versions three in there, so you can’t use those things. Yeah,

can I just clarify something there? So the section styles themselves, the extensions of block style variations don’t rely on the version three of the theme, dot JSON schema, you can still use them without that. So effectively, you should be able to use the section styles with Gutenberg or 6.6 so will Gutenberg supports two prior versions of WordPress, so that should sort of be the minimum requirement that you’d need to leverage this feature.

Yeah, but then, in IDEA world, you wouldn’t need a Gutenberg pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party at that point, and you cannot force your customers to update to 6.6 ideally they should, but there are lots of use cases where it’s not possible or not wanted for whatever reason, and that’s where we are kind of stuck in, because if you put the theme to require 6.6 as minimum, it’s like you cannot ship any further updates. That’s the major problem at this point. Yep,

I’m reading. Brian cords has a question, and I’m not entirely sure. I’m trying to make sure I understand this. Is there support to add a block style JSON file that would define the styles for default variation of a block. The idea being, I could skip the using theme JSON for individual block styles completely. I mean, you don’t have to have you use theme JSON for block styles. You can just register them via php. I don’t know if that answers like you can just register them and via PHP, and if you need to add custom CSS elsewhere, you can do that. I’m sure you I’m sure Brian already knows that. So I feel like I’m missing something in the question

real quick. And I think I’m getting the question, Brian, let me just drop this and see if this is what you’re talking about. So in the spirit of having sections that needed to be white inside, like on a pricing table that had a black background, I needed to be able to set something to white, which is effectively the default, right? I actually created a style called base that is basically the white background with the black text, so that I could use that inside of other places. Because if I didn’t, what would happen is it would just inherit the outer one and, like, it would just be like a transparent, like, like group, like, if you think of like a card inside of a pricing table. And so you need, I needed a way to set that white. So I created a style called base, which means, technically, I don’t need the styles that are inside of that to be in theme JSON, because there’s no i No need for that. I don’t That was the question that you were asking. At least, at least, that’s maybe how I interpreted it. But,

yeah, I can clarify the question too, if that’s helpful. Um, I think that’s a perfect example. The cover block is another example where the default of the cover block is a little opinionated. It comes with changing your text color or something like that. So it would be amazing if I could just make if I could just style my cover block, my button, my out these things as those, like kind of partial JSON files, and not even go into theme JSON, because theme JSON is so big and unwieldy. But now I have this nice folder where I can have little separate files for all of my default, you know, basically the default block style variation, like a button, is another example where it’s a little opinionated. It would be great to style that, but not have to do it in theme JSON. I could use it in these partials. So I know that’s a bit outside of the scope of, like, the concept of the block style variations, but I’m just wondering, can you. Override default styles, or set a variation to be default using just the folder structure, not registering it in PHP,

not a current Not at the moment, yeah,

this kind of gets back to like, the question of like, could you have a structure? Again, I think that people have examples of this, like coded examples of this, where you basically take the theme dot json file and you can, like, break the whole thing out so you can have individual files for all the different blocks and, you know, styles and settings or whatever. So basically you take your, like, destructuring theme dome JSON into separate files, and then there’s, like, a compiler that compiles it into a full theme dome JSON file. I’ve seen a few examples of that. I’m not, I don’t have the mount hand, but I do think that would be a really cool way, because I feel like, at least for me, when I was doing like, per block style sheets, back when we couldn’t do as much in thing. But Jason, it’s very handy because you have all your different blocks broken out. Like, from like, a developer perspective, it’s very nice to have everything broken out. You’re not dealing with one massive file. But file. So I don’t know that’d be cool to see in the future.

In the short term, you can filter the theme dot JSON data. And so effectively, we take those partial files and we copy it into the relevant sections of the overall theme dot JSON file. So by the time it gets to the style generation, there are no partials anymore. So you could do the same thing that we’re doing with the other partials, but instead of them being inserted under the variations key, you’re inserting it under the block type, and you’d go from there. So it wouldn’t take much to jump to that?

Would there be a potential? Because if you register a block style variation, there is an is default argument when you registered in PHP? Is there eventually an idea that there would be a parity between the two different methods before I, like, make some janky work around, like Nick’s describing, which we have actually done with the partials and stuff, and you kind of regret, you regret going too far from court with that stuff.

Honestly, this is the first that I’m considering that default variation or style. So I think what we need there is a GitHub issue. We can thrash it out, and we’ll all settle on the best path forward from there. So I can’t answer that one straight away, sorry. Okay,

I’m over here. Just wanting to play around with that idea now, yeah, just break everything down and to partial files and get rid of my 2500 or whatever line, theme, JSON, this at least 2000

All right, coming up, we have five more minutes. So I think we have one last question that we could answer collectively, if anybody wants to raise their hands and we’ll have a comment

about things I

I’ll reflect a little bit on the lengthy theme, Jason. It’s a slight kind of side quest, but one of the things I’ve noticed is each release my theme, Jason is getting shorter, and I love that, because we’re getting more things, either in the UI or we’re getting more things that I don’t have to do lengthy custom things in the theme Jason. So I guess my point here is, if you find yourself creating giant theme Jason’s and maybe think about how the features that you’re using in there could be more compact, or could be a function or something like that. That’s one thing that I’m reflecting about on, like, how much customer stuff Am I putting in there? How could it be made into issues? So I think there’s also something in there of, like, what are we putting in there? But I personally try and not use CSS. I try and only put it in there, which is a whole me problem, I guess so much. Just

a reflection on that. I

guess I have a quick question for Aaron, since you’re here. So what is next? Is there anything on the roadmap for that you can speak to for 6.7 with regards to Section styles and kind of the this area of work.

Um, I probably can’t make specific promises on what will be in 6.7 but I can certainly speak to what the next steps are. So at the moment, in global styles, you’ll see in the UI, you’re only able to configure the variations top level style. So what’s applied to the block that you’ve assigned the section style, block style variation to? We need to find a way to allow configuration of those inner elements and those inner blocks. And it sort of is a nod to the no code. Editing of or creation of themes, or just provides quicker, easier ways to make those tweaks. So the catch there is, we could continue this drill down paradigm that we’ve got in that global styles, but once you start going to block types, to variations, to inner blocks or elements, and it keeps going down further and further. Now you get lost and you don’t know where you are, so we’ve got to solve that UX issue before we can go too far. There other things that were going to be explored were the composability of these section styles. So it’s already come up in this discussion whether we can mix and match, but obviously there’s a big can of worms there, like the order that you would apply these variations would completely change the results if there were overlapping or conflicting styles. So how do you flag that, avoid that, manage that? So there’s a lot to come out of that. So I think the first step is sort of consolidation of what we’ve got learn the lessons from 6.6 and that might inform the highest impact areas that we can enhance. But I would like to see some of those gaps closed in the UI, at least, so that you can get the job done there and we can improve it and move forward from there. I know there were some enhancements that were shelved during the process of getting to the point we’re at now. For the UI, whether we parse out color only variations and move those into the Color panel and typography only section, Styles would be moved under the typography panel, those sorts of things, and we can then provide different previews or cards that might reflect that better. So you’ll know the styles cards in the site editor that have sort of the color palette to it, or the typography these sorts of things. So we might be able to leverage those UI elements to just provide better visual cues as to what you’re actually looking at. So to your point earlier about randomly clicking and trying and that pick your own adventure, I think was the term you used. So to sort of avoid a little bit of that you can see a number of cards or pills on the UI, and you know that you’re looking for the blue one and it looks blue, or you’re looking for a serif font, well it’s reflected. So I think those sorts of improvements would really make a big difference. But there’s always more power, more flexibility that we can add, refine it. Yes, and then there’s a proposal about updating how we handle the global styles post type, and that unlocks a whole new world of possibilities there too. So with so much possibility, it’s a little hard to say what to watch out for next, because there’s a lot that could happen so exciting times there for sure.

Yeah, bigger. Thank you trying to tell with and you’re on mute. I’m

on mute. Yeah. Thank you so much, but you could go and close out the session as well. I just wanted to say thank you so much for being here and contributing to it, and it was a great discussion. And, yeah, what is the next thing that you want to discuss on a hallway hangout? Yeah, some people say, Okay, this is a good thing to do. So what would be your next topic? That’s all my question. You don’t have to answer. Now think about it, and we’ll talk about it in the outreach channel on the Ripper slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/.. Well, thanks everyone, and thank also Brian Gardner for sharing his Justin. Aaron Nick and everybody else Carolina. Have a wonderful evening, afternoon, morning and good night, Aaron, you’ll see you later. Bye, bye, bye.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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