Dev Chat Agenda for December 4, 2019

Here is the agenda for the weekly meeting happening later today: Wednesday, December 4, 2019, at 09:00 PM UTC.

Announcements

Upcoming Releases

Highlighted Blog Posts

Blog Posts Needing Review/Feedback/Help

Components Check-in

Open Floor


If you have anything to propose for the agenda or specific items related to those listed above, please leave a comment below.

This meeting is held in the #core channel. To join the meeting, you’ll need an account on the Making WordPress Slack.

#agenda, #core, #devchat

Devchat summary: November 27, 2019

The year is winding down!

@francina led the chat; @marybaum here taking notes on a holiday-travel schedule.

20 people announced their presence – of course somewhere around 30K are members, and we could ALL have been watching. The more the merrier!

The chat worked from this agenda.

Announcements

Next minor: 5.3.1

The announcements were all about the next minor, WordPress 5.3.1.

@justinahinon and I (@marybaum) announced that he would move the Thursday bug scrub to Friday so folks in the US could join in without interrupting their Thanksgiving plans.

After some discussion, @azaozz suggested ad hoc bug scrubs every day until release on December 11. He got active emoji support from five people, and then @audrasjb volunteered to host a bug scrub every day this week (the week of December 2).

Highlighted Posts

@francina called the group’s attention to four conversations.

Got opinions? Especially if your feelings are strong, now’s the time to get over there and share your views:

  1. Recap from last week “Regular” chat https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/11/20/dev-chat-summary-november-20-2019/ (edited) 3:15 PM
  2. Recap from last week “After Hour” chat https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/11/25/devchat-after-the-hour-november-20/ (edited) 3:15 PM
  3. Tons of good feedback about the 5.3 release https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/11/15/5-3-retrospective-call-for-feedback/ (edited) 3:16 PM
  4. And tentative release for 2020-2021 https://make.wordpress.org/core/2019/11/21/tentative-release-calendar-2020-2021/ (edited)

And you can always come to devchat, Wednesdays at 21:00 UTC. Find the agenda here, 24 hours in advance.

Calls from Component Maintainers

@francina opened the Call with this wide-ranging intro:

Do we have news from components? Do we have abandoned components that someone wants to adopt? (edited) 3:22 PM

Do we have components that are struggling with the amount of work and need more hands on deck? How can we come together as a community to recruit? (edited) 

See the discussion starting here.

What followed was a general clarification of the difference between a component and a focus, thanks to @sergeybiryukov, who linked to two posts that add some detail.

(I’m listing them in reverse order, so you can read from the general to the specific):

@isabel_brison‘s post introducing the idea of a focus versus a component.

And this post, introducing the Core-CSS group in Slack.

As that discussion ended, @isabel_brison offered to write a followup post, which you can find here.

What are our goals in publishing?

@francina handed the (virtual) mic to @joyously, whose comment on the agenda for this chat asked the group to address goals in publishing.

Essentially, @joyously reminded us that publishers – our users [and as I was trained to think of such folks ~30 years ago, our customers, both internal and external] create content that is going to go more places than just a browser: in emails, feed readers and more. And those environments vary radically in their support for CSS and JS.

In her words:

I am concerned that the trend is toward content that looks good only in a web browser (with JS and CSS) and not good anywhere else.

@joyously

See the rest of the discussion in chat here.

A highlight: @francina linked to this post on Smashing Magazine, that looks at another facet of this issue.

And be on the lookout for more blog posts addressing the topic, so you can add your thoughts.

#components, #core-css, #devchat, #focuses

Dev Chat Agenda for November 27, 2019

Here is the agenda for the weekly meeting happening later today: Wednesday, November 27, 2019, at 09:00 PM UTC.

Agenda

If you have anything to propose for the agenda or specific items related to those listed above, please leave a comment below.

This meeting is held in the #core channel. To join the meeting, you’ll need an account on the Making WordPress Slack.

#agenda, #core, #devchat

Devchat after the hour: November 20

As devchat reached the top of the hour last week, @youknowriad posted his comment about the gap between Gutenberg feature updates and Core major releases.

By December 11, Gutenberg will be ahead of Core with about 5 releases and this is a problem. 12 Gutenberg releases shipped into 5.3 . This is too much for a single WordPress release and with the current schedule, it’s seems like this is going to be similar for 5.4… This is not tenable for the future. It’s hard to stabilize and ship, it’s hard to summarize the changes for third-party developers and users, it’s more scary to ship and people were recommending the plugin to be installed for their clients (and it’s risky since the plugin is a development plugin). So how to reduce that gap is a big issue that needs solving IMO.Ideally I do think a shorter release cycle for majors is better. (Why not just a 5.4 in like end of January 😇 ), otherwise we’ll have to include enhancements in minors.

Riad also left this passage as a comment on @francina’s tentative release schedule, sparking a lively discussion.

So why bring up the subject here, separately?

There’s another question we need to answer, one that lies behind all of our discussions of schedules and cadences and majors and minors and who staffs what. To paraphrase @mapk, at about three minutes past the top of the hour on Wednesday:

What makes a major release?

The rule up to now, bent slightly in the year leading up to 5.0, is that we do not introduce new features in a minor, and really no enhancements either, no matter how small. Minors are for bug fixes and security only.

But then we wind up holding every single enhancement, big or small, for the next major. For some things, that hold can feel like a long wait.

That’s one of the circumstances that has led to the ever-widening gap between the Gutenberg plugin and the Core block editor.

Traditionally, as @azaozz pointed out, we don’t add new files in a minor because there is some potential for mishaps in the autoupdate process. He also pointed out that’s a technical limitation, already partly solved with our bump in PHP version support.

In response, @nerrad suggested that adding new files could become a lot less risky if WordPress moves to updated tooling like Composer, which is on the table in other conversations.

So now, per @mapk and the gang, we’re freer to ask the question based more on what users and devs would like to see:

What’s the bare minimum we can put in a release and call it a major?

And when we answer that, we can discuss any number of possibilities.

In the hour after devchat last Wednesday, and in the insightful commentary around @francina‘s 2020-21 roadmap, we can see ideas from monthly in-between-major-and-minors that just release new Gutenberg features, to starting four majors a year in 2020 and picking up the pace from there.

Chances are, dear reader, that if you’ve read this far you have thoughts of your own. Let’s hear them!

If you’d like to keep the trains of thought straight, I suggest we discuss what components, features and files go in what sort of release here, and scheduling, staffing and tooling over on @francina’s post.

Or we can just see what develops in both places.

Either way, whether you’re celebrating holidays this week or not, have a great rest of your week and a happy day Thursday!

Again, the tentative schedule is here.

The second part of devchat is here.

#2020-scheduling, #devchat, #releases

Dev Chat Summary: November 20, 2019

Here’s a summary of the November 20 Dev Chat (agenda / Slack archive).

Announcements

The 5.3 Retrospective – Call for Feedback post.

@clorith asked, “Would it be an idea to also allow for an anonymous form to submit to that? I know some folks may not be comfortable with the potential for conflict, and may feel safer giving an honest feedback if it wasn’t all public under their name? Then the feedback could be provided by the leads under a followup post, with no relation to individuals.”

@francina said she’d change the post to mention that anyone who’d like to give feedback privately is welcome to do so. 5.3 release leads @davidbaumwald, @youknowriad, @justinahinon, @audrasjb also committed to offering the same.

Upcoming Releases

5.3.1

@whyisjake offered the current list of tickets in the milestone at https://core.trac.wordpress.org/query?group=status&milestone=5.3.1

After a quick discussion of potential release dates, December 11, 2019 came out a potential winner. It’s pretty soon, but it still gives us time to triage 5.3 regressions and bugfixes. That decision is not final – it’s pending more discussion in the comments.

Got thoughts on timing? Please leave them in the comments – the sooner the better.

While we see how those conversations shake out, @audrasjb graciously offered to lead the first 5.3.1 bug scrub on Thursday November 21, 2019 18:00 UTC

Next up: a call for volunteers to lead the release.

@sergeybiryukov, @audrasjb, @amykamala, @marybaum, and @whyisjake all raised their hands. Everyone expressed great confidence in the potential candidates.

Want to be part of the 5.3.1 release squad? Please leave a comment.

Open floor

@youknowriad brought up a discrepancy in the release cadence between WordPress Core and Gutenberg:

By December 11, the date proposed for a 5.3.12 release, Gutenberg will be ahead of Core with about 5 releases and this is a problem. 12 Gutenberg releases shipped into 5.3 . This is too much for a single WordPress release and with the current schedule, it’s seems like this is going to be similar for 5.4. This is not tenable for the future. It’s hard to stabilize and ship, it’s hard to summarize the changes for third-party [developers] and users, it’s more scary to ship and people were recommending the plugin to be installed for their clients (and it’s risky since the plugin is a development plugin). So how to reduce that gap is a big issue that needs solving IMO.Ideally I do think a shorter release cycle for majors is better. (Why not just a 5.4 in like end of January). [O]therwise we’ll have to include enhancements in minors.

This generated a long discussion that continued well past the end of the Dev Chat. See the full conversation starting here.

@davidbaumwald led the chat and wrote these notes. @marybaum did some editing.

#5-3, #devchat, #summary

Dev Chat Agenda for November 20, 2019

Here is the agenda for the weekly meeting happening later today: Wednesday, November 20, 2019, 09:00 PM UTC.

Agenda

  • Announcements
    • Highlighted posts
  • Upcoming releases
  • Calls from component maintainers
  • Open Floor

If you have anything to propose for the agenda or specific items related to those listed above, please leave a comment below.

This meeting is held in the #core channel. To join the meeting, you’ll need an account on the Making WordPress Slack.

#agenda, #core, #devchat

Dev Chat Summary: November 13, 2019

@francina led this week’s dev chat – the last one of the 5.3 release cycle – see the agenda here.

For the full transcript, see the Slack archive here.

Your faithful reporter: @amykamala. Let’s get going!

Announcements

@francina opened Announcements with the release of WordPress 5.3, which went live on November 12, 2019!

She congratulated everyone, NOT just the folks active in the chat, on an amazing job. Several Core committers were especially pleased that 5.3 came in on schedule (🎉) with the biggest group of contributors ever.

Here are a few statistics:

  • 12 weeks of development
  • A release squad with nine focus leads, covering every relevant component that got an update
  • 645 contributors
  • 658 bugfixes
  • A new default theme, Twenty Twenty
  • Lots of fun and new friends made
  • And much, much more!

Before release the squad counted at least 153 user-experience enhancements.

Highlighted Posts

The annual WordPress survey is open! Your feedback is not just appreciated – it’s vital to the future of WordPress. So please fill it out and share it everywhere you can think of.

Tanking the floor for a moment, @chanthaboune told the group this survey is new – not the same as last year – and is broader. Whether you’re a contributor, designers, developers, users or hosts, please participate!

Again, please share the survey with anyone who touches WordPress in any way.

5.3 Housekeeping

Big thanks to everyone who has helped with testing so far! If that includes you, please keep testing and report any issues, concerns or enhancement ideas in a comment on Trac.

That’s how WordPress gets better and you get to shepherd your best ideas through the process.

Need a refresher on how it works? Here’s an outline of the post-release process.

@francina wrapped the discussion with a note that in the next few weeks the release leads will open a call for retrospective. Want to share some honest, constructive feedback? That’ll be your chance!

5.3 Housekeeping Calls from component maintainers

@francina opened the floor for component maintainers to bring up topics for discussion. These are the components.

@marybaum said “I love that we have a #core-css channel. Does that mean Core CSS is a component?”

@peterwilsoncc replied, “it’s closer to a focus than a component. Tickets can still be assigned to the affected component, eg Admin, Themes, etc. “

@sergey asked “If we have a `javascript` focus, should we add one for CSS as well? 

After a few more comments from folks, @francina reminded all 30,000-plus potential attendees that we don’t make final decisions in devchat.

She asked the folks talking about CSS to follow this process:

  • Make a proposal on the Core blog
  • Discuss
  • Come to a conclusion
  • Act

Here are the reports from other component maintainers:

@williampatton: “Themes component is looking good. Prepping for next release.” 

@peterwilsoncc: “From the security team, now we have a Travis CI account that allows for private repos, we have the security tests running regularly. It should make it easier to find out if they’re passing during the release process.” and went on to ask @sergey if it was possible to add it to Trac.

@garret-eclipse: “In the privacy component @rogierlankhorst has started work on a consent api.

Open Floor

@mensmaximus asked whether “we ever change the user management screen to a tabbed interface. What is the current state and what do core devs think?”

@williampatton started with a general reply: “There are lots of thoughts on redesign for user management, but lots of ideas mean lots of decisions [making it] hard to reach agreement.”

A lively discussion followed. Hopefully the WordPress world will see some new ideas for an even more usable Admin experience!

(Ed. note: The UX discussion and the conversation below, about jQuery, happened at the same time, and you’ll see the comments jump from one to the other. Still, imo, both are worth your time and effort to decipher!)

@enrico.sorcinelli has “noticed that Juery’s `$` is no longer globally defined in admin.” That’s made some of their client sites cause issues with users’ code.

@clorith answered, “The jQuery `$` being globally available was a bug.” That bug got fixed in one of the JS updates in 5.3.

“Although it’s not ideal, reports of issues are fewer than expected, and the code errors would be within the plugin code,” @clorith continued, adding, “I tend to lean towards leaving it being the right thing.” 

Here’s the ticket they’re talking about and the full discussion, including some observations on the future of jQuery.

@clorith noticed two items leading the pack of recurring issues, 24 hours in:

  • The update to add_submenu_page gives doing-it-wrong errors. We knew this, but devs weren’t prepared for users to have debugging enabled. 
  • The change to spread operators had plugins breaking, because things like custom walkers had dependencies on the previous operators.

See the full discussion starting at the link above. (Ed. note: this highlighted test is the same link.)

@pbiron asked if anyone had reported problems with the new big-images or rotate-on-upload features. 

@clorith and others noted very few issues.


#5-3, #devchat, #meeting-notes

Dev Chat Summary: November 6, 2019 (5.3 week 12)

This post summarizes the weekly dev chat meeting from November 6th 2019 (agenda / Slack archive).

Announcements

WordPress version 5.3 Release Candidate 4 was released on Tuesday 5th. Everyone please help by testing out the RC.

Upcoming Releases – 5.3

@joyously asked where to look to see how translations are going for WordPress 5.3. @mapk shared the link to the project summary on Translate.

@collet raised some issues discovered on Twenty Twenty:

  • One issue related to nested rules in full-width Group & Cover blocks: 965.
  • Four issues related to column block: 960, 961, 962 and 963.
  • One issue related to nested blocks on starter content: #959
  • Also mentioned a pull request (701) that would be a worth inclusion in 5.3

@johnbillion answered Twenty Twenty can be updated independently of core. It’s ultimately up to the team behind the theme to decide if any of these bugs need to go into Twenty Twenty before 5.3 is released, or whether they can wait until a patch release of the theme.

@anlino will take a look at fixes for the columns issues today and tomorrow. Hopefully he can get those fixes before 5.3 final release. If there isn’t time to get them tested and merged properly, at least we’ll have the fixes good to go post-release.

The issues will be discussed in Twenty Twenty GitHub repository and in the core-themes and core-editor Slack channels to see what can land in time for final release of 5.3.

@collet also mentioned an issue related to the About page. In the about page. it’s said that “Heading blocks now offer controls for text and background color”. However, there is no control to change the background color inside the editor. It doesn’t appear to be related to Twenty Twenty. It needs to be updated in the About page.

Finally, @mikeschroder asked for more testing concerning a recent post published on Make/Core: Use of the “wp_update_attachment_metadata” filter as “upload is complete” hook

Open floor

@isabel_brison asked if a core-css channel could be created on Make WordPress Slack team to discuss CSS stuff. Given the amount of positive reactions, the Slack channel was immediately created by @peterwilsoncc 💥🕺💃

@mpcube asked for a review on ticket #48506. Discussion to continue in the proper ticket.

Move Dev chat meeting time (end of daylight saving time)

@audrasjb asked for a final decision about moving the dev chat meeting time with end of daylight savings time (DST). The meeting attendees agreed to move it from 20:00 UTC to 21:00 UTC starting on Wednesday 13th November. The New Contributor Meeting will also move from 19:00 UTC to 20:00 UTC.

These notes were taken by @audrasjb and proofread by @davidbaumwald

#5-3, #css, #devchat, #twentytwenty

Dev Chat Agenda for October 30, 2019 (5.3 week 11)

Here is the agenda for the weekly meeting happening later today: Wednesday 30 October 2019 at 20:00 UTC. Please share any items you’d like to include in the comments below!

  • Announcements
    • Highlighted posts
    • Move Dev chat meeting time (end of daylight saving time)
  • WCUS/contributor day
  • Upcoming Release Discussions
  • Calls from component maintainers
  • Open Floor

If you have anything to propose for the agenda or specific items related to those listed above, please leave a comment below.

This meeting is held in the #core channel. To join the meeting, you’ll need an account on the Making WordPress Slack.

#5-3, #agenda, #devchat

Dev Chat Agenda for October 23, 2019 (5.3 week 10)

Here is the agenda for the weekly meeting happening later today: Wednesday, October 23, 2019, 20:00 UTC. Please share any items you’d like to include in the comments below!

  • Announcements and highlighted posts
  • Upcoming Release Discussions
  • Calls from component maintainers
  • Open Floor

If you have anything to propose for the agenda or specific items related to those listed above, please leave a comment below.

This meeting is held in the #core channel. To join the meeting, you’ll need an account on the Making WordPress Slack.

#5-3, #agenda, #devchat