Jonathan Desrosiers 1:38 pm on March 13, 2017
Tags: browser support ( 6 ), editor ( 217 )

Continued Discussion on Browser Support

There will be an additional dev chat this week to further discuss the fallback strategy to be used if support is dropped for older browsers. This chat will take place on March 15, 2017 at 12:00 EDT.

While only a small percentage of WordPress users still utilize older, obsolete browsers, it amounts to hundred of thousands, if not millions of people when applied to the WordPress userbase. With the new editor being worked on, there will come a time where a decision must be made whether or not to drop support for these older browsers to allow more modern functionality to be developed. More details can be found in my previous post outlining the discussion so far.

If a decision to drop support for these browsers is reached, there must be a fallback approach determined so that these users do not lose the ability to edit their WordPress site. After continuing the discussion from my previous post outlining proposed fallbacks in the most recent dev chat, here is a modified list of discussed fallbacks with some new, and some improved ideas.

Gradual Approach

@jbpaul17 suggested using a blend of the previously proposed fallbacks. Start by including two versions of TinyMCE in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress., and record data to measure exactly how much the old editor is utilized over the course of X number of months, or X number of release cycles. Then, use a simple textarea similar to the one in core now for users with JavaScriptJavaScript JavaScript or JS is an object-oriented computer programming language commonly used to create interactive effects within web browsers. WordPress makes extensive use of JS for a better user experience. While PHP is executed on the server, JS executes within a user’s browser. https://www.javascript.com/. disabled. Moving from one step to the next would only happen when an agreed upon benchmark is reached.

This approach hinges on actually having the ability to collect this data (see #38418). As learned with the REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. though, setting benchmarks for future decisions can be very difficult.

PluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party Approach with Auto Install/Install Suggestion

As suggested by @samuelsidler, if the plugin approach is taken and the old version of TinyMCE is not included in WordPress core when the new editor lands, there could be an auto-install approach. After much discussion, it was agreed that auto-installing a plugin would not work because there are too many points of failure. However, a large message encouraging a user to upgrade their browser or install the plugin could be a feasible option.

Plugin Route First, Adding Back If Necessary

@jnylen0 suggested that the plugin route could be taken first, adding the old version of TinyMCE back into core only if a benchmark is reached to indicate sufficient demand. This too would need some way to measure demand for the old editor.

Simple Text Editor with Some Enhancements

@afercia noted that a simple textarea or the current “text mode” will very likely still be required for accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility) reasons. I suggested using this option while making a list of features that would need to be added to that field in order to make this an acceptable fallback for older browsers.

If you have thoughts on any of these, please share them below. Otherwise, hope to see you in Slack!

#browser-support, #editor

Darren Ethier (nerrad) 2:13 pm on March 13, 2017

I realize that WordPress has the commendable goal of not leaving these user’s on older browsers behind when it comes to using the editor. However, after thinking about this I too favor a simple text area as a fallback mode for at least the following reasons:

1. It provides an alternative so they are able to keep adding content (albeit with a poorer experience… more on that later)
2. Possible accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility) reasons as already noted.
3. Lower maintenance overhead by the WP project.

I think the reality that must be accepted by users on older browsers (whether they have control over it or not) is that their experience on the modern internet is poor. I don’t think I’ve seen this covered in this discussion anywhere, but what alternative do people have on older browsers besides WordPress? What other platform will give them a comparable user experience supporting their browser as what WordPress is trying to build for them in its next generation content editor (or even tinymce for that matter)? Is there competition the project is fearing losing users on these browsers to if we don’t support them? Or is it just the altruistic goal of being the last bastion of support for these users wanting to publish on the internet?

I think if our goal is framed as, “WordPress wants to maintain a way for users on older/obsolete browsers to add content to their sites” that can be solved much easier than, “WordPress wants to allow users on older/obsolete browsers to add and manage content on their site with the same ease and feature set as users with modern day browsers”.
Jon Brown 2:15 pm on March 13, 2017

Are you still assuming that the number of users affected (by dropping editor support for old IE) is proprortional to the number of users using old IE globally on the internet? Has any effort been made to estimate the number of old IE users actually logging into WP sites to edit them?

I still contend the later, the number using the adminadmin (and super admin) or editor, may be much lower than the number suggested by using the general global numbers of users browsing public facing websites.
- Jonathan Desrosiers 2:22 pm on March 13, 2017
  
  I did some research, but unfortunately I have been unable to locate statistics specifically for adminadmin (and super admin) usage that breaks down browsers by version.
  - Jon Brown 7:37 pm on March 13, 2017
    
    Thanks for trying. It does seem the “Best” source in this case would be WordPress.comWordPress.com An online implementation of WordPress code that lets you immediately access a new WordPress environment to publish your content. WordPress.com is a private company owned by Automattic that hosts the largest multisite in the world. This is arguably the best place to start blogging if you have never touched WordPress before. https://wordpress.com/ who probably can provide that, but I have no idea who to contact.
    
    If the decision is already made to drop support maybe it doesn’t matter as much in the discussion as to “what” the fallback is.
    
    I think the best solution is a single accessible / no-javascriptJavaScript JavaScript or JS is an object-oriented computer programming language commonly used to create interactive effects within web browsers. WordPress makes extensive use of JS for a better user experience. While PHP is executed on the server, JS executes within a user’s browser. https://www.javascript.com/. / old-IE fallback. Maintaining multiple fallbacks seems crazy for coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. to undertake.
    
    I’d far rather see “effort” go into improving a single fallback editor to ensure that single fallback is accessible and generally usable.
    
    If some enterprising developer wants to release a “better IE8 editor” pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, let them go right ahead!
    - Andrew Ozz 7:48 pm on March 13, 2017
      
      …the “Best” source in this case would be WordPress.comWordPress.com An online implementation of WordPress code that lets you immediately access a new WordPress environment to publish your content. WordPress.com is a private company owned by Automattic that hosts the largest multisite in the world. This is arguably the best place to start blogging if you have never touched WordPress before. https://wordpress.com/
      
      Not really as the majority of users there use the Calypso editor which doesn’t support old IE.
      
      If the decision is already made to drop support…
      
      Dropping support for old browsers is “inevitable” whether it’s this June, September, or next January. Having a good plan for it would be great.
- Andrew Ozz 12:43 am on March 14, 2017
  
  Are you still assuming that the number of users affected (by dropping editor support for old IE) is proprortional to the number of users using old IE globally on the internet?
  
  Yes, it is roughly proportional. Can speculate that people with websites also use better/newer browsers, however (as many people have pointed out) many users cannot choose their browser.
  
  Old IE usage is also region specific. The numbers for North America and Europe are quite lower than the numbers for Asia.
  
  In that terms if we choose to make a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party, we would probably need to keep the old WP_Editors class (including translations, etc.) in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. and make only the TinyMCE JSJS JavaScript, a web scripting language typically executed in the browser. Often used for advanced user interfaces and behaviors. downloadable as a plugin.
Tor-Björn Fjellner 3:29 pm on March 13, 2017

I like the idea of a (dismissable) message that “with the current browser your editing experience will be limited, and that as a workaround you might consider installing (or asking your site adminadmin (and super admin) to install) the special pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party”.
I suggest in this dismissable message have a pre-checked box with the text: OK to send your selection to wordpress.orgWordPress.org The community site where WordPress code is created and shared by the users. This is where you can download the source code for WordPress core, plugins and themes as well as the central location for community conversations and organization. https://wordpress.org/ for gathering of statistics.
Then we can collect number of clicks on “Text-box is ok as rollback for me”, “Hmm. Gimme a look at that plugin”. The most important number, however, is an estimate of how often this dialog is shown at all…
Since this dialog sometimes will be shown to browsers with no js-support, one might consider setting a “dismissed” cookie in the following server response, rather than via JSJS JavaScript, a web scripting language typically executed in the browser. Often used for advanced user interfaces and behaviors..
Luke Cavanagh 4:14 pm on March 13, 2017

Not sure on the gradual approach with having two versions of TinyMCE in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress., is a good idea.

I am fine with old browsers having the Simple Text Editor with Some Enhancementenhancement Enhancements are simple improvements to WordPress, such as the addition of a hook, a new feature, or an improvement to an existing feature. option.

This is one of those topics where having actual usage data would really help inform that decision. Then based on actual live WP sites usage by browser type could drive which solution would work best for those end-users.
programmin 8:02 pm on March 13, 2017

Considering that all security updates are applied to all the old major versions even way back to 3.8, why not have the next release (or a few releases from now, maybe 5.0) require recent browsers, so we can upgrade jQuery-UIUI User interface, jQuery, and other libraries to their latest version?

A warning could be given on upgrade that users that haven’t upgraded their browser in 5 years should not upgrade to the new version, and they can use the last major version that supports IE10 etc. Meanwhile new installs would support the latest supported jQuery, jQueryUI, etc.
- Luke Cavanagh 8:18 pm on March 13, 2017
  
  Not updating your browser in 5 years does seem like it is pushing it.
  - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 12:19 am on March 14, 2017
    
    Correlation is not causation.
    
    People can have latest WP while having the oldest OS/Browser. Remember, people who work for strict companies don’t have the same options the rest of us do.
simonrcodrington 9:28 pm on March 13, 2017

I’m fairly keen on gracefully removing support for older / ancient legacy browsers. It makes sense that traditionally WP has tried to provide fallbacks / solutions to people with old browsers, but it’s about time we transitioned away from them.

Having a secondary set of TinyMce controls seems like a good solution to the issue. Having a simple textarea for the post editor, along with a warning or notice of upgrade would be my preferred solution, but either works.

Overall, if you’re a site administrator you shouldn’t be using IE7/IE8 to manage your site (there’s just no reason, they’re both officially deprecated). Even IE9 is starting to push it (though at least it isn’t quite as bad)

I’d be suprised if the number of content editors who use older versions of IE are significant and wonder if they warrant a complex solution just for their edge case.

Thanks again guys!
Luke Cavanagh 9:35 pm on March 13, 2017

IE 9.0 marketshare is 3.08% and IE 8.0 is around 3.18%.
https://www.netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?qprid=2&qpcustomd=0

Some valid points made in this post.
https://www.xfive.co/blog/stop-supporting-ie10-ie9-ie8/
Dougal Campbell 2:51 pm on March 14, 2017

Even as a cutting-edge developer who is always running the newest browsers, I’d like to see the “Text” editor improved.

As far as the WYSIWYGWhat You See Is What You Get What You See Is What You Get. Most commonly used in relation to editors, where changes made in edit mode reflect exactly as they will translate to the published page. editor goes, I would suggest making a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party to support the old TinyMCE editor, and just bundle it with the coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. WP install, like we do with the useless “Hello Dolly” plugin.

In the best of all worlds, with the plugin active, we would present the appropriate editor, depending on browser capability. But individual users could choose to use the old editor in newer browsers, and the adminadmin (and super admin) would have the ability (probably via a filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output.) to force the use of the old editor site-wide. This could be useful for sites with a large number of users who may need updated training, or who need time to update documentation before switching editors.
- Luke Cavanagh 4:49 pm on March 14, 2017
  
  Related to the “Text” editor.
  https://core.trac.wordpress.org/ticket/12423