Nick Halsey 2:15 pm on June 16, 2016
Tags: customize ( 67 ), menus ( 31 ), proposal ( 36 )

Feature Proposal: Content Authorship in Menus, with Live Preview

The current navigation menus system is built around a paradigm that every menu item must be associated with an existing piece of content. However, this is problematic for new users, who may find themselves with the opportunity to build a menu before creating any content. #34923 seeks to improve this experience and eliminate this usability “dead end” by adding the ability to create new post objects (most notably pages) within the menus interface in the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings..

Purpose & Goals

While this feature is aimed primarily at new users setting up their site for the first time, it may also be useful for users that are restructuring a site, or even if they want to add a page here or there and add it to their menu before filling out its contents. It’s important to note that posts and pages added here are stubs – only their title is filled out, and the content will be added later via the post editor. For that reason, most existing sites would probably maintain their existing workflows to create new pages via the post editor, publish them, and then add them to menus. This is of course still fully supported and the new proposal seeks to provide an alternative approach that may be better for different use cases such as new sites.

Because the feature is proposed to be located in the customizer, it also fully supports live preview. The live preview component can build user trust and confidence by letting users preview and interact with their site as changes are made, before they’re published.

Technical Considerations

To allow new content to be created in the customizer, posts are created with the auto_draft status. When the user saves & publishes in the customizer, these newly-created posts are transitioned to be published. In the customizer preview, the status is modified to protected to allow the posts to be previewed.

Ideally, term creation should also be a part of the menus UIUI User interface. Unfortunately, terms to not currently have a status field, and implementing that or looking at alternative approaches is something that will take more thought. Thus, this feature is being built with future support for terms in mind, but without support currently.

By default, the ability to add new content depends on the appropriate capabilities and the show_in_nav_menus parameter when registering post types. Additionally, a new filterFilter Filters are one of the two types of Hooks https://codex.wordpress.org/Plugin_API/Hooks. They provide a way for functions to modify data of other functions. They are the counterpart to Actions. Unlike Actions, filters are meant to work in an isolated manner, and should never have side effects such as affecting global variables and output. is proposed to allow authorship in menus to be disabled on a per-post-type basis.

Testing

User testing has been requested and there are several tasks that could be tested:

Create a new menu for a brand new site by creating pages and adding them to a menu, assign the menu to a location and publish it.
On an existing site, create new pages to add to an existing menu.
On a complex site with multiple menus create a new page once then add it to multiple menus.
On sites with custom post types, create new custom posts for any of the scenarios above.

Test with the latest patch on #34923 and make sure the customize posts pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is not activated (it has conflicts). If anyone is able to conduct user tests that would be much appreciated.

Customize Posts Plugin

Part of the inspiration for this feature comes from the Customize Posts plugin, which has the ability to live-preview posts and post metaMeta Meta is a term that refers to the inside workings of a group. For us, this is the team that works on internal WordPress sites like WordCamp Central and Make WordPress. in the customizer. Only a very small portion of the plugin would make its way into coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. as part of the nav menus content authorship feature. However, the proposal is currently to establish the wp.customize.Posts namespace for future expansions of post-related functionality in the customizer. The existing plugin would extend this core namespace, and other plugins could do so as well.

There are currently no plans to consider the Customize Posts plugin for full merge into core; however, stay tuned for an upcoming feature project kick-off that will seek to explore the future of live preview in WordPress at a broader level.

Feedback & Next Steps

The latest patch is currently seeking feedback for accessibilityAccessibility Accessibility (commonly shortened to a11y) refers to the design of products, devices, services, or environments for people with disabilities. The concept of accessible design ensures both “direct access” (i.e. unassisted) and “indirect access” meaning compatibility with a person’s assistive technology (for example, computer screen readers). (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accessibility), design, code review, docs, and general comments. Please test it and leave your feedback as comments on this post or the ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker., #34923. Given current timing the ticket is likely to target the 4.7 milestone.

One remaining piece to implement is a mechanism to inform the user that their new posts have been published and provide links to edit the posts in the adminadmin (and super admin). This could take the form of a notifications area in the customizer or preview, or happen inline within the menus UI as a notice using the customizer setting validation feature that’s new in 4.6. UXUX User experience feedback and ideas for the potential approach here are needed, and it could also probably work to ship without this part for now.

#customize, #menus, #proposal

chatmandesign 2:23 pm on June 16, 2016

Awesome. As a WordPress developer, I setup new sites for clients on a regular basis, and that usually involves creating menus and stubs before I have content. This feature will make that process go much quicker, so while it’s mainly for new sites, it’s definitely not just for new users.
FolioVision 2:33 pm on June 16, 2016

This really looks like creating trouble where there is none. There are all kinds of dependencies and ugliness which will come out of these zombie pages.

There’s enough empty and empty headed test WordPress sites out there by clients who don’t want to write an iota of content and really shouldn’t be building websites at all, without us adding to the noise.

My objection to this of course is not to prevent people from wasting time on dead end web projects – that’s their free choice – but to the amount of effort we will spend and the bugs which will hit coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. WordPress as a consequence of catering for the absolute lowest common denominator.

I.e. people who want want a website but have nothing to say (and certainly nothing to publish). Surely we have features and bugs to fix enough for people who are really using their sites as publishing platforms?

Sincerely, Alec Kinnear
- Amaury Balmer 3:03 pm on June 16, 2016
  
  100% agree.
  The amount of time spent on this feature is crazy …
- Travis Northcutt 7:24 pm on June 16, 2016
  
  Instead of degrading( edited by Jorbin) on someone else’s hard work, why not take action on the “features and bugs to fix” that you mention? Here are all the tickets marked needs-patchpatch A special text file that describes changes to code, by identifying the files and lines which are added, removed, and altered. It may also be referred to as a diff. A patch can be applied to a codebase for testing. that don’t have one: https://core.trac.wordpress.org/tickets/no-patch
  
  Put up or shut up.
  
  Sincerely, Travis Northcutt
  - Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 1:01 am on June 17, 2016
    
    Travis, it’s really great you’re so passionate about this, still please remember that everyone should be respectful, even when coming to the defense of others.
  - FolioVision 9:56 am on June 17, 2016
    
    As a matter of fact, we do have some code for fixing the very buggy add media buttons but no one can be bothered to even acknowledge our ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker..
    
    Instead of fixing what’s already written, the mob is running after new features, with you at its ill-mannered head. How about finishing REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. (great idea, huge resources invested already: from what I remember Matt Mullenweg seems to slowing the REST API down as fast as he can) or even Shiny Updates before starting this?
    
    Sincerely, Alec Kinnear
    
    PS. I’ve read the more articulate comments below from designers who want to use this feature to build sites. If that’s what this is then the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. should then be advertised as a page/site builder and not an appearance tool. That’s a huge change in mission and one not to take lightly (those who’ve built site builders in the past will know what I mean). Which only reinforces my suggestion that we marshall all available resources to finish our big open projects before starting something on this scale.
    - Aaron Jorbin 7:52 pm on June 17, 2016
      
      There is no patchpatch A special text file that describes changes to code, by identifying the files and lines which are added, removed, and altered. It may also be referred to as a diff. A patch can be applied to a codebase for testing. on the ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. you posted.
      
      Please also remember that contributors such as Nick are volunteers. While you may not view this as the most pressing issue, Nick has spent a considerable amount of time talking to users and investigating the bottlenecks that they face when using the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. along with Weston Ruter and others. The customizer is often one of the top examples given of component maintainership. Encouraging its neglect in favor of your prefered projects does not improve WordPress.
      
      The customizer team developed a roadmap that you found “comprehensive and forward thinking”. This proposal fits two of the identified pieces of that roadmap( “Continue iterating on current live preview features” and “Experiment with a guided new user experience (NUX).”).
      - FolioVision 2:15 pm on June 20, 2016
        
        Aaron, I wrote that comment before the REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. effort blew up in all our faces (just when we thought we were getting a good tool). Again, I’m not saying this enhancementenhancement Enhancements are simple improvements to WordPress, such as the addition of a hook, a new feature, or an improvement to an existing feature. is not of value, I’m saying let’s finish what we started before opening up a new ways to break WordPress.
        
        Now that someone has noticed our ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. about the media buttons, we’ve supplied the full patchpatch A special text file that describes changes to code, by identifying the files and lines which are added, removed, and altered. It may also be referred to as a diff. A patch can be applied to a codebase for testing., thank you and it’s been accepted. Viktor was simply not aware of etiquette (supplying patch with bugbug A bug is an error or unexpected result. Performance improvements, code optimization, and are considered enhancements, not defects. After feature freeze, only bugs are dealt with, with regressions (adverse changes from the previous version) being the highest priority. report). Yet when we’ve supplied patches with 150x performance improvement, bickering and relativism were the result instead of action. WordPress would be a much more solid project if we could clean up lingering issues and open unfinished projects for say half a year before starting major new additions.
        
        Again, we don’t build low traffic play projects at Foliovision nor do we have many fortune 500 clients with unlimited budgets, we work on SMB sites where stability and performance and security are the priorities. That’s our perspective – real world development and maintenance of complex sites with some resource constraints. That’s our perspective.
        
        In this case, the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. is now being morphed from an appearance customizer (original role) to a site builder. In my opinion, it’s not fair play.
      - FolioVision 2:19 pm on June 20, 2016
        
        Why am I being moderated here again? Not being in sync with groupthink gets one moderated? The person here who was offensive is Travis Northcutt who attacked me with expletives for giving an alternative perspective.
        
        You know my email. It’s attached to our account. You can reach me there to keep this thread on topic.
        
        Alec Kinnear
      - Aaron Jorbin 7:22 pm on June 20, 2016
        
        1) Your message triggered auto moderation due to having 2 or more links in your response (the default for WordPress). Your account is not being moderated. I’ve opened a ticket since I don’t think multiple tracTrac An open source project by Edgewall Software that serves as a bug tracker and project management tool for WordPress. links should trigger it on this site.
        
        2) The REST APIREST API The REST API is an acronym for the RESTful Application Program Interface (API) that uses HTTP requests to GET, PUT, POST and DELETE data. It is how the front end of an application (think “phone app” or “website”) can communicate with the data store (think “database” or “file system”) https://developer.wordpress.org/rest-api/. has not blown up in anyones face. Every piece that has been proposed for coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. merge has been merged. The endpoints pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party has 20,000+ installs.
        
        3) Why hasn’t your pet tickets had traction? Likely since there are 100 comment tickets. 23 have been closed thus far for 4.6. When a ticketticket Created for both bug reports and feature development on the bug tracker. goes ~3 years without any activity, it often gets deprioritized. Additionally, as noted on the ticket, the 150x improvement you claim may not be true in all instances “With 2,488,928 rows and the comments table on SSDs, the old query ran in 1.2449 seconds. With the new way, the last query alone takes 1.9485 seconds”. That’s not bickering, that’s being considerate of facts.
        
        If you are looking to better understand the etiquette, the contributor handbook is a great start. It’s a work in progress, so respectfully adding comments about things that are unclear is always welcome.
- Mark-k 3:31 am on June 17, 2016
  
  I actually like the general idea, but it is obviously outside of the badly defined scope of the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings.. Seems like the customizer is trying to leave what its coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. is – customizing front-end settings and to expend to become the adminadmin (and super admin) interface, because that is the only logical way this kind of features will end up doing.
  
  If content creation work flow needs to be revised then it needs to be revised in the admin, not sneaked up from the customizer.
  
  Not actually sure what is the workflow the user is supposed to have here. It sounds like “hmmm I have no idea what content should go there, but I know I will want to link to it” which IMO doesn’t make much sense.
Luke Cavanagh 3:18 pm on June 16, 2016

I can see this having some use. But most content, page or post is always normally created in the dashboard.
Braad 4:36 pm on June 16, 2016

Awesome proposal! This feature will be super helpful for me and other developers who create sites for clients. Thank you to Nick, Weston, and all the other people working hard to make the CustomizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. even better.
Morgan Kay 7:52 pm on June 16, 2016

I agree that this is a great idea. It will be a big timesaver for people who build sites for clients – one of the first steps in any project is to create a bunch of empty pages that the client will fill in later. It will also make life a lot easier for clients – I know from training dozens (if not hundreds) of people in using their sites that site owners tend to think in terms of menus. I have to explain that first you go create the page, and then you have to add it to the menu. A lot of people will think it is a lot easier to add the page in the menu, and then go fill in the page content.
David Innes 8:12 pm on June 16, 2016
Building sites menu-first seems like a common style and so this seems like a nice enough idea. You’re going to want to be careful about usability though because the workflow could be complex.

Based on observations of newcomers some thing to watch out for would a non-zero number of users to
- create a new page from the menu interface with the expectation that they’d be taken to that page.
- delete the menu item because it “didn’t work.”
- recreating the page from the menu interface
This is not a reason not to implement this change because I think it really will be handy once they get the hang of it. Just something to watch out for during the design and error-checking process.
vherring 10:51 pm on June 16, 2016

I am a user not a WP developer, although I have been in software development for more years than I care to remember. This kind of feature is fabulous because it starts to make the development of content and design for the average Joe much easier. I applaud this type of change. There is a danger that the WP product will be directed towards developers and not the ordinary content providers. This change is a positive for the content provider. Love it.
Ahmad Awais 9:11 am on June 17, 2016

Works for me. I think these new features will make CustomizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. more reliable. Bugs can always be dealt with, since when do we not look into adding new features only coz there will be bugs. #justsaying
Niklas 1:46 pm on June 17, 2016

A thousand times yes!

This is great, more often than not when I let customers use WordPress (while sitting next to them) they start by creating the outline of what the site should be like. They go to Appearance → Menus and start typing adding the names of the menu items they want to add. Then they get confused why they need to add links. I think I have had this dialogue four times this year:

“To where?” they ask.
“To the page you want to link to” I reply.
“I want to place my [some page] here” they reply.
“Oh, they you need to create the [some page] first, because you see if you create the [some page] first then WordPress will automatically keep the URLURL A specific web address of a website or web page on the Internet, such as a website’s URL www.wordpress.org and menu name up-to-date.” I reply.
“Oh” they say, somewhat defeated, feeling they did something wrong and were stupid because they didn’t do it the right way.
Morten Rand-Hendriksen 6:37 pm on June 17, 2016

While I think this functionality is useful, I think the CustomizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings. is the wrong place for it. That also extends to post/page editing btw. Using the Customizer for content creation blurs the scope of the feature by mixing two very different types of tasks into one tool: Customizing the appearance and functionality of a site vs. creating content for the site.

I can see this type of feature creating a lot of confusion for the end-user, especially those who are not already well versed in how WordPress works.

IMO for this concept to work, there has to be a clear separation between the Customizer action (creating and customizing a menu) and the content creation action (creating and populating Pages). This separation needs to be both contextual and visual, either by moving focus off the Customizer to a new and different Editor panel, or by enabling in-page/post editing directly in the preview.
Jonathan Brinley 8:37 pm on June 17, 2016

This seems like it could be a useful tool for a certain subset of users (but I’ll probably have to figure out how to disable it on many sites I build). There are some questions that I think we should ask.

1. Does this belong in the theme customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings.? It doesn’t seem to be related to the customizer’s role of customizing the theme. This is more of a content architecture wizard. Adding it to the customizer distracts from the purpose of the customizer. The wizard could more appropriately live in a separate adminadmin (and super admin) screen focused on laying out your site’s content.

2. Does this belong in WordPress coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress.? “This feature is aimed primarily at new users setting up their site for the first time.” Then why not have it in a separate pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party that can be activated when setting up a site for the first time, and then deactivated and uninstalled for the other 99.99% of the site’s lifespan?
- Ipstenu (Mika Epstein) 11:17 pm on June 17, 2016
  
  Regarding #2 – Asking new, first time WP users, to install and then uninstall a pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party is a bit much. It would end up with people not using it.
  
  Perhaps instead say “This feature is aimed at people setting up their site either for the first time or with a new theme.” When someone’s customizing a new theme and realizes “Oh I need this menu item…” would this not be the best place for it?
Mark Root-Wiley 6:48 pm on June 19, 2016

If people think this feature is appropriate, then the implementation seems ok. Props are due Nick & Weston no matter what. I know they’ve worked really hard on this and I don’t want to downplay that at all.

I have significant concerns about this issue and I’ll try to productively summarize the reasons below. Pardon the length, but I promise this got written revised, and shortened 🙂

1. Feature Project?
I see this feature isn’t listed on the Feature Project list and it feels like applying the “mindset” of the feature project might drastically change the reasoning behind and communication of the feature and subsequently the feature itself. Solely based on how this work has been communicated, I don’t feel like the case has been made for coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. inclusion yet.

2. Content in the CustomizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings.
This is by far the most clear-cut example of pulling content into the Customizer yet. I realize this comes across as a “slippery slope” argument, but this feature seems specifically intended to lead to further content editing in the Customizer later (“establish the wp.customize.Posts namespace for future expansions of post-related functionality in the Customizer”), so I think it’s really important to have a clear vision and rationale at this moment for what the Customizer is and isn’t.

Iterative development is often great, but this feels like a case where the iteration just feels incomplete and likely to cause problems. (And yet a more full-featured version of post creation in the Customizer brings us back to the more fundamental issues above.)

The Customizer is currently about working with what you’re looking at, but the primary purpose of this feature seems to be creating new content off screen.

3. NUX & 80/20
If the primary use-case is for new users, this feels like a very permanently visible feature. Is the problem this feature solves making a first menu, making a single page, or bulk creation of pages? I think all three of those would have different implementations.

This feature might help users create a new page in a menu faster than before, but I think it conversely might obscure the post management features in WordPress and actually lead to more confusion down the road. (More on that below.) Creating content in the Customizer feels kind of a like a misrepresentation of what WordPress is and how it’s intended to be used. (I think this is what Morten’s getting at above.)

Considering all of the above, I don’t see this feature really passing the 80/20 rule, and that makes it feel like pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party territory, not core territory.

4. Introducing New Problems
this usability “dead end” by adding the ability to create new post objects (most notably pages)

I have indeed observed users wonder why they can’t create new pages for a menu, but I worry that the proposed feature highlights the “dead end” rather than fixes it. It introduces many new “dead ends” too, like ordering, editing, or adding metadata or taxonomyTaxonomy A taxonomy is a way to group things together. In WordPress, some common taxonomies are category, link, tag, or post format. https://codex.wordpress.org/Taxonomies#Default_Taxonomies. terms to pages.

If a user makes multiple new pages, how does this ensure they get populated with real content easily? Creating new blank pages is fine on a development siteDevelopment Site You can keep a copy of your live site in a separate environment. Maintaining a development site is a good practice that can let you make any changes and test them without affecting the live/production environment., but what if people create a bunch of blank pages on a live site in order to fill them in later? Are we doing them a favor by making this “easy” but leaving lots of blank pages up on a live site? Does this feature accidentally encourage “Coming Soon” pages? (Those animated GIFs were amazing, but I’m serious about the question.) David Innes’s concerns above are along similar lines.

Possibly the #1 question I would want from a usability test is, “Do users understand what they’ve just created?” If a user adds a new Page, do they know to find it on the “All Pages” adminadmin (and super admin) screen? Does this make the concept of different post types too abstract if they are all just initially conceived of as “menu items”?

I’ll end with a quote from the incredibly smart Karen McGrane in her A List Apart article “WYSIWTF”:

“Inline editing encourages content creators to focus on the visual presentation of the desktop interface. Just at the moment when we need content creators to think about the underlying structure, we’re investing in tools that obscure the ‘connective tissue.'”

I think this feature obscures the “connective tissue” of WordPress. This may solve one specific real problem in a positive way, I am just seriously concerned that it creates too many new ones in its wake.
- Nick Halsey 12:34 am on June 20, 2016
  
  Thanks for the thoughtful comment.
  
  This feature is not about content creation in the customizerCustomizer Tool built into WordPress core that hooks into most modern themes. You can use it to preview and modify many of your site’s appearance settings.. It’s about content creation in the menu management workflow. The customizer offers the added bonus of live preview in this case, but is not the primary focus here. We shouldn’t be asking any questions about whether the customizer is the right place for creating content; rather, the question is whether it makes sense to be able to create content while managing menus.
  
  If there’s an appropriate path to then edit that content (in wp-adminadmin (and super admin)), I think that content authorship in menus makes a lot of sense for a variety of workflows, particularly because menus offer a chance to develop a site’s structure more holistically with pages, terms, hierarchy, etc. than what the pages list table offers. This could actually improve understanding of different post types and taxonomies because it provides a chance to see how those objects can interact with each other to shape a visitor’s experience.
  
  In terms of process, this is not a particularly large feature and with the difficulty that we have getting contributor interest/activity in general customizer meetings/tickets/etc., I don’t see any way that we could justify starting a feature project solely to look at content authorship in menus. However, I’m hoping we’ll be able to build up enough interest to start a project focused on next steps with live preview in coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. at a broader level, as mentioned in the post.