WordCamp Talks (Talk Proposals) weekly slack chat recap

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Our last weekly slackSlack Slack is a Collaborative Group Chat Platform https://slack.com/. The WordPress community has its own Slack Channel at https://make.wordpress.org/chat/. chat happened last week, Wednesday Dec 21 (5:30pm UTC+1). The archive starts here.

No set agenda as it was right before the holiday and attendance was low.
Present: Andrea Middleton, Tom Nowell, and myself, with participation from Josh Levinson.

We covered the following points and came to a few agreements:

We’ve validated the 2 CPT approach as the most effective, stating definitively that each has its own separate and unique purpose, giving us far more advantages.
We debated the name WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Talks, and have decided, barring better ideas, that WordCamp Talk Proposals would be more apt and will be reflected in the UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. if not the pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party namespaces.
This brought up further discussion on the use of such a plugin for other types of proposals and WordCamp decision-making where upvoting could be useful. We decided that the direction we’re taking with WordCamp Talk Proposals is very specific to the Call for Speakers process and related post types and taxonomies, and that other types of proposals could use the basic WP Idea Stream plugin if desired.
We briefly discussed the single sign-on approach, and agreed that it should be contained in a separate plugin for development and maintenance purposes, as well as to eventually make it available for other usage. But we will focus on it being useful for WordCamp Talk Proposals first and foremost to not slow down the integration of this valuable feature.
Tom brought up the idea of rebuilding the code base from scratch; we decided that this foundation was well enough advanced that it was best to continue on the current fork.
Tom and Josh were given commit access.

Our next slack chat is scheduled for Wednesday January 4 at 5:30pm UTC+1 on #meta-wordcamp.
Reminder that the plugin can be found here on githubGitHub GitHub is a website that offers online implementation of git repositories that can easily be shared, copied and modified by other developers. Public repositories are free to host, private repositories require a paid subscription. GitHub introduced the concept of the ‘pull request’ where code changes done in branches by contributors can be reviewed and discussed before being merged be the repository owner. https://github.com/.

Comments welcome. Thanks to all!

\o/

Ian Dunn 3:15 am on December 31, 2016

I realised that fundamentally a talk and a session aren’t the same thing. I can give my talk at many WordCamps or multiple times at a WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more., whereas a session is time oriented

@tjnowell, I can see an abstract argument for that, but I’m having a harder time seeing it make practical sense in the context of a WordCamp.

If I talk about the same topic at two different camps, I wouldn’t consider those to be the same exact talk; in my mind they’re more like different versions of the same talk. They could be presented years apart from each other, and hopefully they’ll be changes each time to make the latest version better than the previous ones. The audiences, delivery, Q&A, etc will all be at least somewhat different, and could be vastly different.

On a practical level, the data related to the two talks/sessions would be stored on two different sites. I don’t think we’d want a global talk post that would be identical across multiple camps, and only have the sessions posts on be unique, if they’re only storing the time/date. (I don’t think anyone was proposing a global post, I’m just using that idea to demonstrate that they’d have some different data between two camps for the same talk, even if separated the time/date as only being part of the session).

I can see a use case for giving the same talk multiple times at the same event, but that’s extremely rare in my experience, so I wouldn’t want to base our fundamental architecture on it.

From an architecture and code standpoint, it seems like it’ll add unnecessary complexity in order to manage the duplication of posts from the proposal status to the accepted status, and handling edge cases around reverting status changes, etc. It also duplicates data in the database, when it seems like the coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. schemas as the same, and only some peripheral metaMeta Meta is a term that refers to the inside workings of a group. For us, this is the team that works on internal WordPress sites like WordCamp Central and Make WordPress. data is different.

I definitely agree that the native WP UIUI UI is an acronym for User Interface - the layout of the page the user interacts with. Think ‘how are they doing that’ and less about what they are doing. doesn’t work great for the two different workflows (managing proposals and managing accepted talks), but there’s no rule saying we have to use it, or that we can’t modify it to fit the needs of this pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party.

I’m also concerned about how well a 2-CPT approach would integrate into the existing codebase. It feels more like something being tacked-on, rather than a cohesive and consistent iteration. If I were to design an ideal solution from scratch and custom-tailor it to fit WordCamp.org, then I think my natural inclination would be to start with the existing CPT and extend it, rather than creating a whole new CPT. So, I wonder how much of the 2-CPT idea is really an artifact from initially building on top of a separate, generic plugin.

Having said all that, I’m definitely still open to being convinced that the 2-CPT approach is better. It’s not lost on me that you started out in favor of the 1-CPT approach and later decided the 2-CPT approach was better, so I’m curious to hear more about what changed your mind.

I haven’t had a chance to look at the code closely yet, so maybe there are practical considerations that I’m missing, or maybe the advantages of the ideal approach don’t outweigh the extra time and effort it would take, etc. I’d like to hear everyone’s thoughts and continue the discussion.

Unfortunately, I’m about to leave for Christmas vacation, and won’t be back until the 11th, so I’m going to have to drop out of the conversation for another two weeks at least 🙁
Ian Dunn 3:45 am on December 31, 2016

A button to create and pre-populate a sessions post in the WC admin ( needs further research, I couldn’t find the code that implements that part of WordCamp.org at short notice )

It sounds like you were looking for the wordcamp-forms-to-drafts pluginPlugin A plugin is a piece of software containing a group of functions that can be added to a WordPress website. They can extend functionality or add new features to your WordPress websites. WordPress plugins are written in the PHP programming language and integrate seamlessly with WordPress. These can be free in the WordPress.org Plugin Directory https://wordpress.org/plugins/ or can be cost-based plugin from a third-party. It’s a very rough v1 and has some ugly hacks, so it definitely shouldn’t be considered gospel, but it might have some useful code to borrow.

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WordCamp Talks (Talk Proposals) weekly slack chat recap

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